4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns?
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4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns? - 8/12/2007 7:04:47 PM
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Z88Z
Posts: 46
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline
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Just looking for a quick confirmation here...
The 4.0 6 cyls, the 3.9 Magnum series motors and the newer 4.7 family all have different bellhousing bolt patterns, yes?
I heard the 4.7 was the same, now I hear it isn't. Is it the same as either the 4.0 or 3.9 Magnums?
Looking into a close ratio NV3500 for my 98 5.9 ZJ.
The HD is a good choice but it seems like there are BH pattern compatibility issues. I don't think they were behind motors that fit the Magnum B/H bolt pattern.
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RE: 4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns? - 8/12/2007 7:08:18 PM
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Z88Z
Posts: 46
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline
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Just looking for a quick confirmation here...
The 4.0 6 cyls, the 3.9 Magnum series motors and the newer 4.7 family all have different bellhousing bolt patterns, yes?
I heard the 4.7 was the same, now I hear it isn't. Is it the same as either the 4.0 or 3.9 Magnums?
Looking into a close ratio NV3500 for my 98 5.9 ZJ.
The HD is a good choice but it seems like there are BH pattern compatibility issues. I don't think they were behind motors that fit the Magnum B/H bolt pattern.
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RE: 4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns? - 8/28/2007 7:21:02 PM
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hemixj
Posts: 1
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline
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The 4.0 is a Jeep engine...it has nothing to do with Chrysler except that they got the engine when they took over Jeep. It was never used in any actual Chrysler vehicles other than Jeeps. The 4.0 is derrived from the 232/258 Jeep engines and use the old AMC bellhousing pattern, the same as the 304, 360, and 401 Jeep engines (not to be confused with the 360 in the Grand Cherokees, which are Chrysler engines).
The 3.9 uses the same pattern as the 318, 360, 4.7, and 5.7 Hemi engines, which is also the same as the pre-Magnum engines. Just check on the crank position sensor locations, because the 4.7 uses a different sensor than the 5.2 and 5.9.
For pedas for the 5-speed swap, try a dealer. They are VERY rare, but in 1993 Grand Cherokees were offered with a 5-speed. You may be able to buy pedals and brackets at the dealer. Otherwise, you might be able to modify Dakota parts.
Jim
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RE: 4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns? - 8/29/2007 5:40:05 AM
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Z88Z
Posts: 46
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline
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Thanks Jim, Good info. I was pretty sure the 4.0s were different but wanted to confirm the 4.7s.
Now, as far as the crank sensor on the 4.7 family: Is the crank sensor actually in a different position that would make a 4.7 bellhousing unusable behind a 5.9 or Magnum series engine?
When exactly did the "straight six" motor go away? I've seen 6 cyl ZJ Jeeps for sale, some said straight six, some said V6. I wasn't sure if there was actually a change in there or if it was just confusion on the sellers part.
I'm on top of the pedal situation, sort of! :-) I just started calling/searching boneyards this week. Visited two local yards so far.
The two things I have working against me are 1) as you said. they're rare as hen's teeth, 1993 only although I've heard they were a rare option on 94s too, and 2) most of the 93s that are left in boneyards are in the "U pull it" section of the yards and the people I've called consider it a low priority to check if they have 5 spds that still have pedals, those pedals not being a big ticket item and all, or they've said I'd have to come out and check them myself.
Heard differing opinions as to whether XJ pedals might work with some modification. The Dak/Ram pedals are a good idea, worth checking out and now that you mention it the dealer might be a good idea too. Some of the less vital Jeep parts are actually a lot less expensive than I thought they would be at a dealer.
As a last resort I could do a WTB on the Jeep forums but that would be expensive since they know how rare they are! :-) I know of one Jeeper that sold a set for $200! I doubt I'd spend $40 in a boneyard.
I have actually seen only one 93 6cyl 5spd ZJ for sale in the last few months since I've been searching. 250K miles, asking $1,500. Way too expensive to use for parts. With that kind of mileage I doubt I'd make any money back on the rest of the parts. Besides, I'd hate to ruin such a rare vehicle. Had to pass on that action.
One good thing came from the search though, I ended up finding a radiator and mint hood, pass electric mirror, rear bumper cover and a complete rear hatch for my older ZJ for $300 total. (I have a 93 5.2 and 98 5.9 LTDs) The hood and hatch I got have absolutely no rust on the lips which is a rare find here in MA. The best part is all the pieces except the hatch are already black and good enough paint to wax! The hatch is a later flip glass style so that's going to take some rewiring I imagine.
I have decided I'm not buying the trans or any other parts until I have a set of pedals that will work for the swap.
Thanks again Jim. I'm sure I'll be posting back with a few more questions.
< Message edited by Z88Z -- 8/29/2007 5:49:47 AM >
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RE: 4.0 - 3.9 - 4.7 Different bellhousing bolt patterns? - 8/30/2007 3:32:31 AM
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HankL
Posts: 2719
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline
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If memory serves me right
all the bolts except one on the 4.7
line up to the older Mopar trans pattern.
Here an old post with some info that might be of use:
=====
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(concerning the manual transmissions used in early Dakotas)
Some of the 5-speeds are the AX-15's, which are on the weak side.
However, they share the same bellhousing bolt pattern with many other
transmissions made by Aisin-Warner. The stoutest of which is probably the
R-154 found in the late-80's to early 90's Toyota Supra turbos. They're FAT
transmissions, with a beefy cast iron mid plate that happens to fall very near
where the trans crossmember is in an A-body.
I'm mulling on that swap right now. The Dak bellhousing & flywheel are the way
to do that swap, as it's a near bolt in... once you have the space in the
trans tunnel. FWIW, the 4.7L and 5.7L v-8's have the same bolt pattern on the
back of the block, and even the 3.7L Jeep engine does too. The 6-speed behind
the Jeep Liberty turbo diesel looks interesting (also has the same bellhousing
bolt pattern), but I bet it's not a small trans, either....Clair
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