I'm going to replace my clutch on my fan, but am pondering the viper fan instead. it is about $400 more than the HD clutch. But will the viper fan pay for it's self in the long run? What kind of increased gas milage will I be looking at? How much more power? If I'm getting .2 MPG more, that is hardly worth it to me. but the extra power could help with the towing I do.

Is socaldakota the only place to get the viper fan upgrade?

I have heard a 2-3 mpg increase (most likely highway but still a good increase) and you will get a signifigant amount of power back. When I replaced my fan clutch I could really feel the difference in power and not in a good way. This thing loves bogging me down and is pretty damned annoying...

Yeah, same here, but once the clutch releases itself, power is all there! But I do not know if the viper fan can displace enough air flow if you do alot of towing. I would think it would be okay for light towing, but not recommended for heavy towing. It may help, if you get a dual fan setup. The viper fan for the main fan to pull, and maybe two smaller push fans installed in front of the Durango. This may give you the airflow needed to keep your D cool if you do heavy towning?

Why would the fan not be enough for towing if it is more CFM? And by dual fans you mean the flex a lite?

Most my driving is city. When I tow, I average 10 MPG still. I think then camper is around 3500 pounds and the boat even less. So half of capacity at most.

A 2 MPG increase would pay for it self in about 32 weeks I figure with gas costs around $3.

One thing is electric fans can never displace the amount air that a clutch fan is capable of. I think that is one reason why you never ever see trucks or heavy duty trucks have electric only fans. They all have clutch fans and some may have electric fans used as a assist or for A/C use for constant air flow when the truck is idling.Thus reasoning for some durangos having a electric fan and clutch fan combo. My R/T has this combo setup. Especially when towing, when your engine is locked in lower gears to get that max torque, engine temps really build up and the electric fans may not be adequate to keep up.

I confirmed this when my clutch fan went out. The electric fan was the only thing that kept my D from really overheating. But I noticed driving in city, the electric fan cannot keep my engine within normal temperature range. I was hovering around 210-220 with electric fan running. These temps were acheived during DFW's hot 100+ summer heatwave and I was not towing anything. After replacing my clutch fan, I dropped back to 195-200 degrees.

Another word of advice, when your Durango hits the 210 degree mark, the PCM will put your engine in limp mode. Meaning you will definitely feel power loss on the engine. This is normal and is a fail-safe feature to prevent you from further overheating your engine. If your engine never can get below the 210 mark, better have your cooling systemaddressed or you will be replacing your engine soon.

There are 3 different 2 fan kits on this site:

http://www.stylinconcepts.com/parts.aspx?partfamilyid=964

12", 13.5" and 15". The 15" claims 5500 cfm.

How much CFM is the stock fan? These require "vihicle modification" and I'm mnot so sure I want to deal with that. They also have "push or pull" options which I have no idea what that is....

5500 CFM's is plenty of air I guess. More air than what the viper fan pulls. Dual 15 inch fans. You will have to check your alternator and electrical on your Durango to make sure it can handle the power requirements needed by this dual 15 inch fans. You will have to contact that site to see how much amperage is required to operate those fans.

If nothing else you can upgrade to an optima yellowtop and a heavy duty alternator. That means more money to throw at it though. [&:]

I did the viper fan upgrade and have no cooling problems. The viper fan is a two speed fan, in my installation I only use the low speed and the high is wired for emergency use via a cabin mounted toggle switch. I used the fan with the a/c on in 95 degree weather, with no problems at all and idling the temp stayed at 188. I upgraded to a 165 amp alternator, the optima yellow top the largest that would fit and this was done because of my stereo system. I don't tow, if I did I'd use the same or use the high speed only which ever works best.

ORIGINAL: Dman98

I did the viper fan upgrade and have no cooling problems. The viper fan is a two speed fan, in my installation I only use the low speed and the high is wired for emergency use via a cabin mounted toggle switch. I used the fan with the a/c on in 95 degree weather, with no problems at all and idling the temp stayed at 188. I upgraded to a 165 amp alternator, the optima yellow top the largest that would fit and this was done because of my stereo system. I don't tow, if I did I'd use the same or use the high speed only which ever works best.


I do not like to use switches in the cabin for the fan. Been there done that. Sometimes when driving, you don't have time to take your hands off the wheel and eyes off the road to go toggle a switch. I prefer to keep it automated whenever possible. Do they make a dual stage thermostat? Something like low speed for A/C and normal cooling and when thermostat hits warmer stage, it can kick in high speed?

Does anyone know how much CFM the Viper fan throws out and how much the stock fan is?

I would like to do the Viper fan, for the "direct fit" purpose alone, but Keeping the truck cool when towing is pretty important. I wouldn't care so much for a toggle switch, I mean look how many things we adjust when driving. I've had to fool around with my brake controller before for looking up the brakes and it is suppossed to be the most user friendly controller. Radio controls. EATING!!! Flipping throught he overhead computer. Etc.... Flipping a switch would be fine. But I do agree with Kensai that it would be better if it were automatic, but I could deal if the cooling was suffeciant.

I never had to use the switch, I put it there as a fail safe measure. I also have a light installed, that comes on with the fan and goes off with the fan. This way I'll always know when the fan is on/off. If the low speed stops working, I'll have the high speed to get me home without the fear of overheating. If a clutch fan or factory electric fan stops working, you'll have to get it towed or risk overheating. I've never heard of anyone having any problems with the viper fan, go with whatever makes you feel comfortable.

I emailed socaldak to ask about nthe viper fan (which I guess I could of done soner....) This was my Q and his reply, if anyone is intrested. Apparently the Viper Fan moves more air than my clutch.


ORIGINAL: CESSPOOL
Sam,

I'm looking at "other" cooling options for my '99 Durango with a 5.9L. I'm considering the viper fan 2 speed complete kit you have on the website for $440. Do you know how much CFM this fan moves compared to the stock clutch fan? I do a decent amount of towing with my camper or boat. I have been told that I need to be careful with going electric due to the strain the towing puts on the engine and making sure I get enough air movement. I would like to have the electric fan for the MPG/H.P. increases, but they do me no good if I overheat. I will be putting a HD clutch on the fan if I have to, but want to check with you first. The elec will obviously be quiter, but I know the HD clutch will get the job done. I don't really have any issues now, especially once I get on open road, but the stop and go with the camper/boat until that point will run me a bit warmer than I like, around 200 degrees. Which is where the High Speed would really come in handy I would assume. It isn't really an issue at all in the cooler months, but right now we are 90-95 degrees in Cincinnati, Oh area. I am going on a 4 hr trip in july and would expect about the same and I NEED to have something done. We are going to TN, and it will be hilly, hot and a 4 hr trip.

Please let me know ASAP. I saw on your site there is a 2-3 week lead time on orders, and My trip is just over a month away.

Thanks for all your help,


ORIGINAL: SoCalDak
Phil, the viper fan should do well, on a 99-- the fan is controlled by a temp controller (adjustable) to switch between hi and low speed... you should run about the same when under load as you would with a clutch fan-- and in 'traffic' actually run cooler due to the higher air volume the fan will produce.

I think it would work fine for your setup... I've got hundreds of these all over the world (a Durango in Kuwait City, Kuwait runs one-- and he's in 120 F heat-- and says that it works about as well as anything considering the conditions.)

the only thing is the comment he made on recommending the product, he did not mention how well this will work on D's that do alot of towing. I assume the dude in Kuwait runs fine but it may be that he does not do any towing there.

I recommendation on this Cesspool is to ask around other durango sites that you are a member of and ask if there are any Durango users with the viper fan kit that does alot of towing. Get their responses.

Otherwise, the E-fan kits are great for owners that do very light towing or no towing.

If it is more air volume being brought through, then how clould it not be better? Not that I don't agree wkith you kensai, I want some more info, but time is dwindling down on my trip...

CessPool,

Your logic is correct, if the E-fan can pull the same CFM's a clutch fan can, then logically yes, E-fan should be enough. But just remember, you have to factor other things to get the heavy duty Efan install such as beefing up your electrical. If your alternator cannot handle the power requirements of the E-fan, you will have to replace that first. Alot of thinking and planning when changing out from clutch to Efan.

Since your trip is so close, don't make any quick unprepared decisions. If your D is cooling just fine, leave it be and then look into this again after your trip. Otherwise, go with a cheap light duty fan clutch. At least that will not set you back too much should you decide to convert over to Efan. I think light duty fan clutches runs around $40-$50 bucks? My severe duty clutch ran me $100. Way heavy duty but I am glad it is finally starting to break in so my fan does not roar too much.

I posted on Moparts.com to see what they have to say.....

Where did you get your fan Ken because mine is a HD and I got it for like $66 after tax.

I think I bought it from O'Reilly auto parts. If memory serves, they had a regular (light I presume), then a HD model, then a severe duty model. I bought the severe duty model. At the time, the only thing in my mind was making sure my Durango runs cool during Texas summer heat, but at the time, I did not consider the kind of noise this severe duty fan can make when starting up the engine when it is cold.Actually the first severe duty clutch was bad from the box. Never disengages. So replaced it with another severe duty clutch and this one seems to be doing what is doing. However, the severe duty model, the fan roars longer than a regular clutch I presume. But eventually it will disenage after a few miles of driving from a cold engine start. So during this time, I just baby the engine until the fan starts to disengage to save gas and wear on the engine. I can tell my new belt is being strained and starting to slip at times if I really have to hit the pedal with the clutch still locked.

Get a $200 Mark VIII fan, cheaper than the Viper setup and pulls MORE air. You can even find them used on eBay for less than $100. Add a good stat to control the thing and you are home free.

HTH,

IndyD

Damn Indy where were you with this info before I did my fan replacement. I'll have to look into this to get rid of the parasitic draw for cheap. [8D]

That, or you can go to a salvage yard, and pull one off of a Lincoln Contintental... as long as it has the 3.8L engine, and an e-fan with three wires, you got the fan that has a low setting of 2500cfpm and a high speed of over 5000cfpm...

I got mine for 20 bucks. :D

Works PERFECTLY!

Well forget you Indy where were you frenchy??? [8D]

Ohand BTW what year/s would I be looking for???

I got mine off, I believe like a 93 Continental...

Seriously, takes a 7/16 socket to take it off, two bolts at the top, cut the three wires as CLOSE TO the little module box you can... then look for rtkota5.9 or whatever's little relay diagram and do it that way...

I'll have a how-to up....

Eventually.

I actually snagged a diagram off of dt already but I guess I can compare em. [8D]

Indy,

is this the fan you are talking about?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Mark+VIII+ fan&category0=

These markVIII fans sell for $45 on ebay. Could you give some deatails on hooking it up? I am completely lost on how I would do it with out instructions. Will I need to Mod anything?

And Most importantly, do you do any towing?

Thanks!

ORIGINAL: Dman98

I did the viper fan upgrade and have no cooling problems. The viper fan is a two speed fan, in my installation I only use the low speed and the high is wired for emergency use via a cabin mounted toggle switch. I used the fan with the a/c on in 95 degree weather, with no problems at all and idling the temp stayed at 188. I upgraded to a 165 amp alternator, the optima yellow top the largest that would fit and this was done because of my stereo system. I don't tow, if I did I'd use the same or use the high speed only which ever works best.


How are ya'll checking your temp this accurately?

For that price, it's hard to pass up. I may get one to try. Then we can actually answer everyone's question if the E-fan can actually replace the clutch fan when the D is used for moderate to heavy towing.

Just odd that I had yet to see any trucks out there that has a electric fan only setup? I wonder why the factory does not want to choose a E-fan over a clutch fan on trucks. Saves gas and reserves more power for get go! Maybe the clutch fan is cheaper and more reliable in the long run?

Well I just went to the pick-n-pull and picked one up so I gotta get all the wirinig and relays and I'll get this sucker in. I was talking to some guys at the yard and they said they did the same thing with their project 5.0 and the guy at the register said he'd used them before. Another weird thing is he said his 04' was running an e-fan only on the 5.2 and that it came stock, never heard of that on the Dak...

They had quite a few cars to choose from too. I actually got mine out of a mercury with the 3.8 so I'm guessing any early 90's 3.8'swill do.

Here's a diagram I pulled off of DT

local://upfiles/37840/37D3EEE0D4A64D93805C7CC8B52B0932.jpg

Interesting wiring, Looks like they are missing the A/C wiring piece of it to make it all work together! Unless you get to keep the OEM Efan!

http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_817322/tm.htm

This was in the Dak section, just look for rtkota5point9's posts. He has a digram up as well and apparently the fan is always on.

I saw that thread. It's a dandy!!!

I saw on ebay that a 98 and newer Mark VIII fan pulls more CFM than the older ones. Any truth to this? Could just be a ploy, but you never know....

I dunno but I Just got everything I need to the tune of $100.00

Look what I started! [8D]

So Green, how did you like the clearance and the install? Where are your pictures! LOL

Here are a few helpful links:

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33039

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28673

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32414

IndyD

I got mine hooked up, using rtkota5point9's method, and yes, it's always on, I let it run sometimes after my truck is off to cool the engine...

total cost for me....

20 for the fan..
6 dollars for the two relays
5 dollars for 45 feet of 10AWG wire

31 dollars.. and averaging about 22.3mpg on the highway... up from 21.1 before e-fan...

4.7L 4WD.

Well I went around to a couple auto part stores and got the stuff I needed (a little too much I'm gonna have to go back and get a refund[&:]). The relay I got had all the wiring done already and hadvery good instructions on how to wire the fan up properly and have the a/c kick the high speed on for me, while the low speed is kicked on by the engine temperature through a radiator temp probe. For anyone that is interested and good at wiring here's their instructions. I can't wait until next tues. or wed. I am gonna slap this baby in.

local://upfiles/37840/4F7F0E42506D47C3BC7E3288A8B29E48.jpg

Mean, if you go with the dual relay setup I would recommend to use the low speed setting for your A/C and the high speed for the temp probe. Always use the highest cfm rating when cooling is called for by your D.

Otherwise, if low speed is always on, and the temp probe is used for high speed, that should be okay.

Heres a link I found about the fan.

Here one about the CFM (4800!! at 14 volts.)
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=77892&highlight=elect ric+fan

I've read on a couple site that itpulls 30 amps to run and people recommend a bigger alt. But these are also on different cars. Can our D's handle this power need stock?

You won't need to upgrade the alt.

I don't know why everyone is fussing over how much air the viper fan pulls in. Think about it...depending on what year they come from, it is designed to cool a 488-505 ci V10. It'll coola V8 with ease. Here's a site with viper fans for cheap: http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=214096
They are p/n P5007266

ShadowRango,

Think again.Automakers put electric fans on cars instead of clutch fans mainly because either it is front wheel drive or cars that are not made to tow. Let's say the V10 you mention that would be in a viper. Ever seena viper tow anything other than itself? Big engines is one thing, but if they are in vehicles not design to tow or endure heavy loads, they won't even work up a sweat.

As I have stated earlier in my post, have any one ever seen a truck with electric only fan straight from factory? I haven't? That is the real debate here, D owners that do part time towing or even full time towing are wanting some hard facts before giving up the clutch fan for a electric fan. Otherwise, if your D is strictly for performance driving or just hauling your family around, the electric only fan should do just fine.

I'm more willing to take the chance on a Mark VIII fan for cost reasons. I'll be out less than $100 versus $450+ if I go Viper.

After my trip in July, I'll let everyone know the results. Guess I'll have to take the clutch fan with me though, just in case:D

I guess it just seems odd to me that a V8, even while towing, would produce more heat than a V10 being driven hard. Isn't the mechanical energy an engine gives off supposedly only 33% of the total energy, ie the viper's 500 hp engine gives off another 1,000hp worth of heat? Kensai I'm not questioning what you're saying, but I've never heard anyone say that a viper fan couldn't cool their truck. Most say that it never even has to use high speed.

I think the viper fan is more than enough even if towing.(low t-stat/goodwater pump/fabricate a shroud) My neighbor has a 5.9 ram with Ls1 fans and he's one of those "dedicated" people that love to tow just about everything. He said it never overheats and he turns the fans off on the highway. I want to put electric fans on mine but my charging system won't be good enough because of the underdrive pulleys.[:@]If you're looking for cheap fans(not $400+!), goto a junkyard and get them off a LT1/LS1. I bought this gauge/controller for my tranny/oil cooler fan, it should work great for a project like this. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CSI%2D1225&N=700+ 115&autoview=sku

ORIGINAL: ShadowRango

I guess it just seems odd to me that a V8, even while towing, would produce more heat than a V10 being driven hard. Isn't the mechanical energy an engine gives off supposedly only 33% of the total energy, ie the viper's 500 hp engine gives off another 1,000hp worth of heat? Kensai I'm not questioning what you're saying, but I've never heard anyone say that a viper fan couldn't cool their truck. Most say that it never even has to use high speed.


I agree, logically it should work. We're all just a little ansy here not wanting to dump alot of money for such an expensive fan kit and then find our expectations are not what we thought.

We cannot wait for Cesspool and Mean grean to try out the Mark III fan kit. For $45 just for the fan it is well worth the experient. I will be waiting in line to get my clutch fan removed and replaced with the Mark III fan after we hear the possibly good results from them.

Yep doing it tomorrow, The only thing is that I need an overflow and washer fluid reservoir out of a 98-99, I've asked all of my coworkers if they have them and was going to ask to swap out my shroud for their overflows but they all have 00's or newer. I think one of them has a 98' but thinks he has a 00' it has the OEM chrome rims that just look wrong on the D. Oh well I'm gonna call Dodge and see what they have and how much it will cost me, other than that Summit is right down the street and I know they have overflows.

MG,

What's wrong with keeping your '00 shroud?

IndyD

I don't see it fitting with the e-fan, I am going to give it a shot after I get some sleep since the junkyards I have been to don't have any overflows... Gotta get some sleep first though I just got off of a graveyard shift and I'm dead tired.

Ok, time for me to jump back in here with some more questions...today here in Buffalo it was only 91 Deg F and my D started getting hot again sitting in stop and go traffic. Hot in this case was above 210 on the factory temp gauge. It did start to drop once I was on the highway again, but never gets below what I would consider 190? ( I have to see what thermostat is in there when I tear into this thing...I bought it used so i don't know if it has ever been changed...) I looked over the engine compartment this morning and I have some questions about putting the Mark VIII fan in here ( i have also been watching a few on ebay!). I thought the stock e-fan was between the radiator and the A/C unit. Wouldn't you have to have a shroud built/fabricated that would completely cover the sides from the Mark VIII fan to the radiator for it to properly pull air thru the radiator? I mean if you didn't, then wouldn't it just pull air from the easiest source? ie not THRU the radiator, but from around its surroundings? And if you did make a shroud, would it have both fans inside it now making this a tandem fan unit with the stock e-fan discharge becoming the MarkVIII fans intake? Maybe I am over engineering this, just curious before I waste a day and a couple hundred bucks to find it doesn't work... Also, I know larger pumps can lose efficiency, what about the water pumps on the Ds out there? Do they fail altogether or can they lose capacity over time? If Im going to rip into this, I want to do it all at the same time since I don't have alot of free time...also any pics of the "all E-fan" or Mark VIII upgrade would be great, I will take some and post after I am done since I really believe in documenting all work done...Thanks guys.

360 you get rid of the stock e-fan as well as the clutch fan when you upgrade the e-fan. Aside from that I am almost 100% certain that your fan clutch is bad and it isn't the t-stat, it is a good idea to change it anyway but it isn't your problem. As for the shroud definitely leave as much of it on the mark VIII fan as possible because it will help with cooling but it is there. I am going to pull my sOEM e-fan and see about pulling the motor and blades (if it is even possible) so that I can keep the fabricating to a minimum and keep the OEM look.

Thanks for the clarification Mean Green....as soon as I read your reply it hit me....duh, the Mark VIII (or other fans) are two speed...hence my thought that I was over engineering this upgrade...makes total sense now. Well, Im off to the junk yard to find a catch tank and washer tank to use...

You may not have to get the overflow and washer fluid reservoir, Wait for me to get to work on this thing and I'll let you know if I can use the OEM fan shroud. If my wife didn't take the camera I will take lots of pics.

Does anyone know which wire in the ignition is supposed to be tapped into? Is it the red one ar one of the many other colors???

I am just about done I just need to make some brackets and wire the ignition into the controller but I ran out of sunlight. [:@]

My son is sick so I have to finish up after mopm gets home. [&:]

I'd just like to find a junk yard local that has the fan. I've called everyone in the area...

Looks like I'm EBAY'n it!

Well I ran into another issue with the fan, I can't get it to shut off. I plugged the battery in and it kicked on immediately so I thought I had plugged into a constant source in the ignition. I pulled the wire from that source and left it unhooked so I could use my underhood light and the thing kicked on again even though the switch wire wasn't plugged in to anything. Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be??? I am stuck pulling the - cable after I shut off the D at this point until I get a day off next week. Oh and BTW it didn't go over 195 idling but we'll see tomorrow when it warms up a little bit how it really performs.

Mean, If I recall I heard it will run non stop unless you buy a fan controller for it. I think Jegs had 3 from $40 to $120. The $40 kit looks like all we would need.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&lan gId=-1&N=0&Ntt=fan+controller&Ntk=all&Nty=1&D=fan+contr oller&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchall&Dx=mode%2Bmatchall&searc hTerm=fan+controller

Is it OK to have a temp probe in the radiator fins for the control?

You can purchase a fan control unitthat will cycle on and off by means of a temp probe included with the unit and the unit can be connected to the original ac efan switch to cycle on and off the high speed automaticly when the ac is turned on, it also allows the user to wire a manual override switch to cycle the fan on and off at will, the switch however is not included. I saw this fan control unit the other day at an aftermarket website that I shop from frequently. Perma-Cool makes it, just get the dual fan control set-up and wire the speeds as seperate fans.

I do have a fan controller. I was thinking (and have been told a couple times) that it might be wired incorrectly form the factory. I'll be going down to Auto Zone to see about a replacement since it is faulty but not fried.
Oh and cesspool that's what I did and no leaks. Just be gentle with it and you'll be fine.

How well can a probe in the radiator really tell the engine temp though?

ORIGINAL: cesspool

How well can a probe in the radiator really tell the engine temp though?


cesspool it'll work real good, if placed nearest the hottest point (at the inlet). On some refrigeration equipment, we cork tape temp bulbs to the evaporator to control the txv, this sort of control has been around for eons and is quite effective. Most manufacturers of the temp control in question claim a +1 degF/-1degF accuracy of their temp bulbs, that's as good as it gets even with a standard thermometer.Key factor is to insulate the bulb so it reads only the radiator temp, so cork/ tar tape it so the bulb is olny exposed to the radiator.
On another note, MG did you get the adjustable one ? I saw one at jeggs that can be set to cycle on at an adjustable range from 160-240degF. Also does anyone know the cfm draw of this fan we're talk'n about and the cfm draw of the factory clutch fan? For compairison I noticed that the high dollar aftermarkettwin truck e-fan assemblys all claim to draw 5500 cfms both fans running max rpm.This has got me think'n 2 3000 cfm fans for mill'n round Vegas all summer long in 110+++deg weather ac full blast stop and go traffic, It's like the Arizona proving grounds with casinos out here.

I had heard it rumored that a 98 Mark VIII would throw 5200 CFM, but they claim all of em will blow 4000 CFM +... Who knows though.... That was just from poke'n round the internet.

I haven't found or heard anything about the CFM of the stock clutch, I was curious also.

Oh and Lil Red, Thanks for the Probe Info!!

yes it's adjustable and I think it is about the same 160-240 range.

Mean,

Which controller did you get?

It's made by torqflo, the exact name would be on that page I posted up earlier in the thread. I went down to the Zone and showed the manageer that it did work but that it was not wired properly so he is ordering me a new one, it should be here by weds or thurs. He didn't hassle me one bit even though it is electrical and they don't do returns or exchanges on them, I guess he knew that wouldn't be a good idea to lose a good customer over a cheap part like that. That's why I always go there, they will make it right if it is wrong.

Hey Mean..sounds like the job is almost done so I have to ask...were you able to keep the fan shroud/overflow tank/windshield tank combo or did you have to get others from earlier Durangos? I just bought a fan off e-bay so my day is gettting closer...

My Overflow was fine, I will have to take a few pics.

I just replaced the controller today and it is still kicking on wheneverI put the negative terminal on the batteryso needless to say I'm pretty annoyed. One thing I noticed (I think)was that when I shut it off tonight it sounded like the fan speed kicked down to the lower setting, I'm thinking maybe the wire I tapped into for the AC is a constant source and is keeping it going when the ignition is off. I am going to yank it off tomorrow (hopefully) and see if it stays off when the D is off. Other than this I am so close to just installing a switch and that is pretty bad because I really don't want to go with aswitch onsuch a critical thing as a fan...

Well I pulled the a/c and ignition switch wires and it stsill ran WTF... I can't figure this out. It has the ring of a bad controller but I just don't understand how I could end up with 2 bad ones in a row. I am gonna go to Summit probably weds. and see if they have a different brand and if that doesn't work I'll be installing a switch. Also it sounds like the fan bearings are going out so I'll probably have to pick up a new fan soon...

Mean,

If the controller is really nothing more than a relay, if you have a ohm meter, you can verify all the contact points as far as which 2 contacts are for the replay coil, and which contact is the common, normal on, normal off, etc...

There are times, you may get a wrong electrical diagram layout of a switching relay or controller. Happened to me a couple of times. When that happens, I just use my ohm meter to identify if the contacts are really labelled correctly according to the diagram provided.

How would I go about testing it since I suck with electrical.

Mean,

First look at the diagram that came with the controller. Does it show the contacts layout as far as what wires go into what contacts? Then using an ohm meter, use the diagram layout given to you to confirm if those contacts are what they say they are. example:

To understand how a ohm meter works:

Using the two lead probes, you will try to establish an electrical current to confirm connectivity.

closed circuit - zero resistance reading (needle moves to zero or led readout will say zero)
open circuit - infinity resistance reading (needle will not move or led will not read anything)
load circuit - resistance reading greater than zero but not infinity reading. This means there this is not a short but a load such as electrical coil, resistor, element) etc.

the relay coil will always have 2 contacts. one is ground and other is power. when you find these two contacts, you will get a resistance reading.

If this relay has a two switching points. Such as one is normally in the on position and one in the normal off position. Then you will normally have 3 contact points with one of the 3 being the common (usually common will point to the device or power). If you only one one set of on/off set points, then you will only have 2 contacts. Check the diagram to see if it is normally off or on. If normally on, you will get a zero resistance reading (needle will go to zero for dead short). if normally open, you will get infinity reading (no reading).

I'm silent guys because I don't know. I am however reading the thread with a high level of interest and look forward to seeing the pics and reading about the positive end results. Go get 'em MG!!

IndyD

Well I guess I'll go and get me an ohm meter. I don't have much of a diagram on the instructions (I posted them up earlier in the thread) the only thing it says is where to plug them. I think the actual realy might have a diagram but it is all greek to me. I think I may give torqflo a call as well and see what they say since it iss obviously their piece of junk being labeled incorrectly. My ground wouldn't cause it to keep running would it? I put the ground wire on the passenger side grounding location in front of the airbox.

Oh and another thing, why wouldn't it just cut off after the temp probe goes below 160* which is the factory preset. It runs continuosly no matter what.

I got the fan control today but I'm still waiting for my fan to come in.....:(

My control has an extra wire for a dual fan. The Mark VIII fan is dual speed. Do you think the control will run both speeds or will there be a second wire for the hi speed that I could hook the other wire to.

And the intructions say to hook a wire up to a source of power that only comes on with the car. Any suggestions?

My fan just got here!!:)

Mean,

My fan doesn't have a wire harness, only the white oval plug. Could you tell me which wire was the top, middle and bottom?

Thanks

Never Mind. I'm going to buyt a wire harness from Lincoln for $23....



ORIGINAL: cesspool

My fan just got here!!:)

Mean,

My fan doesn't have a wire harness, only the white oval plug. Could you tell me which wire was the top, middle and bottom?

Thanks

I got my fan a few days ago from Ebay...I have not received my controller, but I had no idea it would be this hard...i thought i did my homework here...I won't be putting mine in for another week or two (fishing trip to Canada planned)but will document everything from the start and compare notes when i do...and you better believe I will have the laptop out there to look up some threads here....

Whats so hard? Loks pretty straight forward to me. The only part I was concerned with was the wiring, but it has decent instructions.

I don;t think it will be hard either.... just got a few folks working out the wiring bugs for all of us. Hang in there everyone!

Cooler, fasters Ds in the midst!! [8D]

IndyDurango

ORIGINAL: Mean Green

Well I guess I'll go and get me an ohm meter. I don't have much of a diagram on the instructions (I posted them up earlier in the thread) the only thing it says is where to plug them. I think the actual realy might have a diagram but it is all greek to me. I think I may give torqflo a call as well and see what they say since it iss obviously their piece of junk being labeled incorrectly. My ground wouldn't cause it to keep running would it? I put the ground wire on the passenger side grounding location in front of the airbox.

Oh and another thing, why wouldn't it just cut off after the temp probe goes below 160* which is the factory preset. It runs continuosly no matter what.


Question Mean:

The diagram you posted on the first page of this thread, it is for a viper kit? Is the relay on that diagram applies to the controller you got? If not, that diagram is meaningless. Otherwise, let me translate that diagram for you.

The relay:

85 - is Postive side of magnetic coil
86 - is ground side of magnetic coil
30 - is Positive side (common) for 87 and 87A
87 - is Normally open between contact 30 and 87 for high speed.(change to close by20A switch cab when in on position).
87A - is Normally closed between 30 and 87A for low speed. (change to open by 20A switch cab when in on position).

Who drew up this diagram? Judging from the bold lines on contacts 30 and 87, I would logically assume this is the normally closed or normally open contacts. Only way to confirm this is using a ohm meter on the relay.

My personal preference is not to use the switch at all. use the thermostat for the high speed of the fan. And use the positive live wire from the A/C unit to control the low speed. This way, have total automated control of fan.

This way, when A/C is enabled, it will enable the fan in low speed. When the temperature reaches the set point on the thermostat, it will auto switch the fan from no speed or low speed to high speed.

I'm not using the intial wiring diagram at all since I bought a controller that was supposed to take care of this headache, I'll post up the instructions I got again. Keep in mind I have pulled all of the wires that are supposed to be switches and also cooled down the temp probe and it still runs constant, whether the D is on or off.

I was just looking this over again, Could my problem be because I am wired into the fan on both the low and high speed from the controller. It looks like it is supposed to be for a dual fan setup. I just figured the lower speed would stay on (with the ac) and the high speed would kick on as needed.

local://upfiles/37840/1D66B8EA2D624EEF8747DE87CE5483BF.jpg

So I have everything for the elec fan now. How do I know which wire coming off the AC comnpressor is the positive?

ORIGINAL: Mean Green

I'm not using the intial wiring diagram at all since I bought a controller that was supposed to take care of this headache, I'll post up the instructions I got again. Keep in mind I have pulled all of the wires that are supposed to be switches and also cooled down the temp probe and it still runs constant, whether the D is on or off.

I was just looking this over again, Could my problem be because I am wired into the fan on both the low and high speed from the controller. It looks like it is supposed to be for a dual fan setup. I just figured the lower speed would stay on (with the ac) and the high speed would kick on as needed.

local://upfiles/37840/1D66B8EA2D624EEF8747DE87CE5483BF.jpg




That's may be the problem. Looking at the schematics, this controller is not setup for a 2 speed fan, but 2 separate fans.

DO NOT CONNECT both of the power leads to the high/low connectors of the 2 speed Mark fan. You may risk shorting out the motor or something worse.

ORIGINAL: cesspool

So I have everything for the elec fan now. How do I know which wire coming off the AC comnpressor is the positive?


If you have a DC voltmeter, all you have to do is put one probe to the frame of your D. Then the other probe, touch the lead going to the A/C compressor clutch, if you get power, that is the positive lead, if not, then there may be another lead and test that one.

I'm gonna go over to Summit soon here then and pick up a better controller. Hopefully they have something otherwise I'll be stuck with this like this on my offroad trip. I have also been hitting a few degrees higher than 200 when I run the ac. Not a big deal but I think it's high time to get another 180* t-stat and go to town.

http://dccontrol.com/

My fan control has 2 wires for dual fans. My fan has 2 wires for high and low. I called the maker of the fan and they said to just hook up the first fan wire to the high speed of the Mark VIII and not use low. Does that sound OK?

I'd like to know if I could hook the 2 wires from the control to the 2 wires of the fan. Doesn't the second fan kick on like the high speed would?

I have the fan hooked up. The fan kicked on only with the AC on. I have to mess with the probe and setting. Right now I have it rigged though.

I STILL NEED TO KNOW WHERE TO HOOK IT UP TO AN IGNITION SWITCHED 12V SOURCE

SO I f you have any ideas I would appreciate it!!! Right now it has a switch and is hooked up straight to the battery. Not ideal when the key can do it easier than popping the hood. It freed up alot of space and really wasn't that hard to hook up. I leave wednesday for the trip. Upon my return I'll get some pictures and details of the install, along with my heater core bypass and my new custom CAI.

Thios thing ROARS that's for damn sure!! My wife hates it.... Wonders why she has to drive the redneck D!!!

Well, now it stopped working. No idea why.... was coming on with the AC and now nothing.

I think the controller isn't what I need. I think I'll try my hand at wiring it like you see here:
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_817322/tm.htm

Mean Green,

How's the install going? Pictures and updates?

Hope all is well.

IndyDurango

No time as of right now, I want to get some work done with it on weds. after I hopefully get good news about the t-case. If nothing else like I said I'm going to install a switch. On the bright side I only went a little over 195 on the trail and it was while in 4low with a steep incline. Nothing a 180* t-stat won't fix. I'll get pics when I'm done messing with it.

Well I ended up installing a switch for the fan. It looks pretty clean but wasn't my first choice. I'll take some pics later since I am pretty much done. I just need to mount the controller (what a waste of money) and clean up the wiring.

Here's a few pics

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/th_S5000448.jpg (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/S5000448.jpg)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/th_S5000452.jpg (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/S5000452.jpg)
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/th_S5000453.jpg (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/Mean_Green/S5000453.jpg)

I figured I should install some electric fans with my 5.9 engine swap. How many CFM's of air would I need to cool the engine without any problems?

Mine cools pretty well. My only gripe is it goes a few degrees over 195 when running the a/c and it went slightly over when offroading through one nasty uphill stretch. A lower temp t-stat (I'm running a 195 now)and fabbing up a shroud would fix this, no problem.

Were you not able to keep the original shroud/coolant tank? I have yet to install my fan.....still sitting on the work bench until I can find time to install it...

I was able to use the OEM overflow. I just had to trim the top corners a little but it fits very well. The problem is that it has a gap between it and the radiator and I'm sure it is sucking air from around the edges instead of through the radiator. I'm just trying to hink of a way to fab up some shrouding. As for the bottom shrod it wouldn't help in my app so I set it to the side if I ever want to go back to OEM.

I was going to install electric fans in my D last year and I remember finding some company online that would build a shroud to the specs of your radiator/fan setup. I looked for it today and found nothing. I could use my stock shroud but I want a lower profile one so it's easier to work on the engine. Do you think a 3,000cfm electric fan/180 t-statis good enough?

Sounds a little slow. I know the fan I'm using pulls almost 5000 and I'm probably getting 3/4's of that through the radiator right now. Go to a pick-n-pull and get an e-fan like this it works great and I've been a good guinea pig. [&:]

I just dedided I'm going to buy that 3000+cfm fan. I have a FlowKooler High Volume Water Pump. I imagine a decent fan,Hypertech 180 T-Stat, and this water pump will be good enough.I even have a digital fan control gauge to turn the fan on/off any temp. I'll post some pics after I get the new engine in. I'm still in the LONG process of porting/polishing/cutting the runners on this "Keg" intake.

Bad decesion Durango911.

1) Not enough air
2) To much money compared to other options

Go for the MarkVII like the rest... or dont. Just don't bitch about it later when we can say "I told you so". LOL

IndyD

If you have the max cooling package, those radiator are 4 core radiators and I saw alot of efan's states not made for 4 core radiators.

I dedided to stay with the clutch fan. I like having a 400hp durango that looks completely "stock"! I'll eventually put dual electric fans on but I want a custom shroud so it covers the entire radiator and looks good.

It's been 2 weeks since I got back and I thought I'd give an update on my...even though I've not really had it working right yet.

Before I left, My average was 14.5 MPG. Big increase in mileage. about 2.5 better. I was having trouble getting my fan to work. I had it wired to come on with the key on low and a switch for high. I had to use the switch to turn it on and had only one speed. I couldn't figure it out and went with it. (I took the regular fan with me though, just in case) Well come to find out, one of my speeds was burnt out. thus, it wouldn't come on. Which one, I'm guessing low wasn't working. The middle wire. Does this affect the high speed, I don't know. But if Not then the fan definitly will NOT work when towing. A week after I got back the fan quit completely and I put the clutch back on.

On my way, it was about 88 degrees. Mountainous and I ran about 200 degrees most of the way. Once I got up to 210 and almost pulled over to switch fans. I had to keep the Over Drive on so as to keep the RPM's down abit more. With the OD off I would of been about 210 or more the whole trip. I did average 12.5 MPG though. which was nice and I could not believe the difference in power. I would really like to get the elec fan to work if possible. I'm going camping again this week and it will be about 98 degrees and humid. If I can get a new one by then I will try again. I'm only going about 45 minutes though this time.

I don't know if one speed being burnt out will affect the total preformance of the fan or not. I just moved the pigtale to the side so next fan will be plug and play. After I get it and know both speeds are working right, I'll give another update on towing with the elec fan. But right now, it's looking like a big negative....

I'm going to double check and make sure I have a 180 stat also. If you do put a fan in your D though, don't waste your money on the fan control. That thing was a waste... Use the schematic found here in post 20: http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_817322/tm.htm

the 210 and 200 you mention are those with the efan or clutch fan.

Just remember, when your D hits 210 degrees, the computer will put your D in limp mode, meaning you will lose power and MPG'S. This is design to try to save the engine from burning up.

that was with the elec fan. It went into limp mode 1 time for less than a minute right when I came out of the mountains.

I put a severe duty fan on it for my trip. It still got hotter than I like. At this point I'm unsure if anything will keep it at the temps I want when towing....

I'm going to Niagara Falls in 3 weeks. Maybe I'll get another elec fan and try it anyways. One, hopefully, that works right.

cesspool,

What set up are you running again?

IndyD

Hey cesspool...where are you traveling from on your trip to Niagara Falls? I live 10 minutes from there and the weather should be max of low 80's to upper 70's about then....I might have my electric fan installed by then, but I don't tow anything so don't know if I can give any info on truck temps in this area...

ORIGINAL: IndyDurango

cesspool,

What set up are you running again?

IndyD


As far as the fan goes, stock shroud/fan and a severe duty clutch.

ORIGINAL: durango360

Hey cesspool...where are you traveling from on your trip to Niagara Falls? I live 10 minutes from there and the weather should be max of low 80's to upper 70's about then....I might have my electric fan installed by then, but I don't tow anything so don't know if I can give any info on truck temps in this area...


We are coming from Cincy, Ohio to Niagara falls campground and lodging on Niagara falls rd.

ORIGINAL: cesspool

I put a severe duty fan on it for my trip. It still got hotter than I like. At this point I'm unsure if anything will keep it at the temps I want when towing....

I'm going to Niagara Falls in 3 weeks. Maybe I'll get another elec fan and try it anyways. One, hopefully, that works right.



Maybe the water pump or a stat that's stuck closed. I changed my water pump a few months ago, it was leaking out the weep hole, I got a 360 too and I had heat issues and I'll tell ya the leak was hard to spot.

Get a flash light and an inspection mirror. Get underneath her and possiton yourself under the crankshaft pulley. It will look like a leaking timing cover shaft seal, however if you follow the leak to the top of the crankshaft pulley you'll see what looks like coolant leaking from where the bottom hose connects to the water pump, in my case what was happening was the water pump was leaking from the weep hole and the coolant was being sprayed onto these parts while driving making it difficult to find the source of the leak this is because the weep hole is on thetop side of the pump.

I hope you have a stat and not a pump problem, the pump is about $60, but is kinda a sucky job to do.

Pump is less than a year old. I didn't think changing it was that bad though. Maybe it was cause it was the day after the starter swap, which was a royal Pain in the arse...

I'm gona change the stat though. The truck cools fine when not towing, I want it to cool the same way when under load.

ORIGINAL: cesspool

ORIGINAL: IndyDurango

cesspool,

What set up are you running again?

IndyD


As far as the fan goes, stock shroud/fan and a severe duty clutch.Â*


OIC. The stock electric fan isn't going to cut it. In this thread about replacing for the HiPo Ford fan or a Viper fan. I couldn't tell if you upgraded to one and were having issues or not.

If you want to run electric only, get the Mark VIII. You are wasting your time on trying to get the stocker electric fan to cool the D in anything but optimal conditions.

IndyDurango

Indy,

My D is a 99...1 clutch fan for all the cooling needs. No stock elec.

All of my elec fan problems are with a Mark Viii Fan.

Cess,

You mentioned that you may have lost one of the speeds on the fan? You can check by testing each of the wires separately and find out which wire is high, low. Hopefully both speeds still work. Have you connected both wires together or somehow wired the fan where it may accidentally send power to both speeds at the same time? If have you know which is high speed, ONLY use that one, just tape off the low speed wire and not use it.

An electrical guy at work tested it. He said only one speed is working. Other than that, I don't know which wire is high through testing, though I was told low is the middle wire. If that's the case, then low isn't working. But if low isn't working, will that affect how high works?

I don't understand how a fan control is a waste of money? You can program it to turn on at any temp. And a 3300 CFM fan with shroud is more than enough to cool down a stock 5.2/5.9. This is the one I use.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CSI%2D1225&N=700+ 115&autoview=sku

Becasue that is $115 to do what a $6 switch and 2 $8 relays can do......

Cess, it should not affect the high speed, but chances are if you bought this used or from a junk yard, it may be possible this fan is shorted out or bad....

My guess is, if you cooling system is clean and operating normally, that MarkIV fan on high speed should be able to keep your D cool even under towing if the high speed setting is actually rated over 4000 cfm's. Otherwise, the speed your fan is currently running must not be anywhere near the 4000 CFM operating speed. The high speed may be partially bad or about to burn out totally.

Thanks Ken, That's what I am hoping for!

You say Mark IV? Did you mean Mark VIII or this a different fan all together?

I still have 3 weeks before Niagara. So I hope to try again with better results!!!!

I agree it's expensive. I just think switches make the D look like sh!t.(kinda redneck ish)

The nice thing about the controller is that you do not have to do additional external wiring. Less external wiring, less things to go wrong. Keeps everything as simple as possible and keep your D looking good without wires all over the place unless you spend extra time to dress up the wires.

ORIGINAL: cesspool

Thanks Ken, That's what I am hoping for!

You say Mark IV? Did you mean Mark VIII or this a different fan all together?

I still have 3 weeks before Niagara. So I hope to try again with better results!!!!


Oops, Mark VIII, I was not sure what the model number was. It's the one we are all discussing about at the beginning of this message thread that Indy got everyone all wild up over! http://www.dodgeforum.com/micons/m9.gif

As I stated earlier, if one of the speeds is burned out, it may be possible the other speeds are not in good shape either. I would definitely get another Mark VIII fan to do comparison and I would bet my last bottom dollar you may see a huge difference on an actual working mark fan and the one that is having problems. And remember, if you are doing the wiring yourself and using those relays to do the work for you, make sure that "at any given time" there is no power going to all the speed power leads, this can shorten or completely ruin your fan motor. You can only power one speed lead at any given time. Working with relays, you have to make sure when one switch is turn on for one speed, the relays must also disconnect power to all other power speed leads to prevent the motor from working against itself.

Ken,
I used the schematic found in post 105 of this thread. Check it out and see if looks good to you. I got it from rtkota5point9. He says it works for him. I'm just a monkey following directions as far as the wiring goes. I am clueless when it comes to electrical stuff. Though I may ask the electronics guy at work to help....

Looking at the schematics to the other link, here is your possible annoying problems you will have to deal with.

1. The fan will always stay powered on at low speed as long as the key is on the run position. This is not good if you run your D during the winter time, it will take longer for your D to warm up.

2. You will have to manually flip the switch between low and high speeds based on load demand you put on the engine. This is not really a safe thing to do if you are driving on the highway and you are taking your eyes and one of your hands off the road and steering wheel to flip a switch.

3. Also, this diagram does not interface your A/C to work alongside it. So when A/C comes on, you have to flip the switch to high speed unless constant on low speed will suffice for A/C cooling (which may not as the D will get hotter with A/C running).

This is what I recommend if you still want to stick with this home made relay setup:

2. Replace the switch with a thermostat. Let the thermostat automatically switch to high speed when the temperature reaches the set point (180 or 195 depending on your T-Stat you have.

1,3. You can add a third relay to the schematic. To switch on/off the low speed via A/C. If the low speed of the MarkVIII is at least over 2000 cfm's, it may be enough to cool the A/C condenser. If this is not enough cooling for the radiator, the thermostat on step 2 will take over automatically by switching the fan from low to high speed.

All in all, the fan will only power on when demand isrequired of it instead ofthe low speed running all the time regardless of load.The thermostat will automatically switch the fan from no speed/low speed to high speed instead of having to manually switch it.

To tell you the truth, most bigger cars, usually just have one speed. The two speed may be used in the lincolns to deal with noise levels. Running low speeds when the engine is not running at high temperatures and most time, is enough to keep the engine cool when you are only idling.

I reworked that schematic I saw by adding a 3rd relay to actually control the on/off of the low speed via A/C power. By then, there is alot of little wiring, here and there, and can confusing the amateur person that knows little about wiring. Best is to get a dedicated fan controller. Yes, the one that is expensive option to this homemade brew. But the fan controller eliminates all the extra wiring and possible errors. But when choosing a fan controller, make sure you choose the correct one. Most fan controllers only controls one speed or 2 fans. You will have to research to see if they make a fan controller for a 2 speed fan, not for two separate fans. big difference. The one that Meen green got may have been setup for two separate fans.

I'm an amateur Ken, But I can follow directions!!! If you would be so kind to tell me how to add a 3rd relay I would be very thankful! Ultimately, I'd Like to have a switch for Low also. I see your point on the switch, but is really any different than eating, cell phones or radio controls? I'd also like a true temp gauge inside the cab.

Alright, if you are willing to tackle a home made setup, I will modify the current wiring diagram with a 3rd relay so the low side can be controlled as well. Give me some time as I will have to use something like Visio to draw up the diagram and convert it to something like PDF so you can dload it and open and view it.

Ken, don't go to to much trouble. If you want to tell me which number to put to which, I can draw it out. thanks though!!

Cess,

Here you go. I hope the format comes out correctly. If not, let me know, and I'll email you the correctly formated PDF version. This Thermostat switch should be a single stage. I also recommend you to use an adjustable temperature range thermostat switch. If you have to buy a fixed temperature thermostat switch , you must match the temperature setting to the thermostatyou have installed on the engine. I have added the full legend to tell you how everything works.

Wow, it's been a while since I read and wrote simple HVAC electrical schematics.

local://upfiles/1043/005CC4CAD43043CB8F2AF77EBF777E0A.jpg

HAHA...simple. All I see is Greek!!!

thanks Ken!! I'll definitly be giving this to the electrical guy at work to go over with me **ahem**decipher.

Ken, shouldn't the high come on with the AC?

Yes, normally it should, but as this is a two speed, you can use the low speed providing the MarkVIII can pull at least over 2000 cfm's. That is why I stated earlier about most vehicles only uses a single speed fan, then the wiring would be much easier. I am sure that 2000 cfm's is enough to cool the A/C as the OEM electric fan only pulls around 2000 cfms.

If it were me I'd either wire it for low with a/c off and high with a/c on or wire it constant on with the ignition switch in high speed only. I don't think the low speed on the fan pulls enough cfm to keep the engine cool anyway unless it's winter in Chicago and you're coasting down hill in neutral. Low speed might be good in the midwest, up north, or on the east coast, but where I'm at it only gets into the 50's and 60's for maybe 2 1/2 months tops, so I view the low speed as useless.

Cess, I hope the fan works out for you, because I know you can feel the hp difference without the clutch fan stealing power from the engine, and I'm still waiting to see how this all plays out with you and MG before I try it:D

ORIGINAL: Kensai

Yes, normally it should, but as this is a two speed, you can use the low speed providing the MarkVIII can pull at least over 2000 cfm's. That is why I stated earlier about most vehicles only uses a single speed fan, then the wiring would be much easier. I am sure that 2000 cfm's is enough to cool the A/C as the OEM electric fan only pulls around 2000 cfms.


Not to be a pest Kensai or to challenge your knowledge, but I've done a lot of "e-fan homework" especially in the required cfm department as I want to do this to my D too. In my seach for information I checked Perma-Cool's website (an e-fan manufacturer) and this is what they reccomend for cfm requirements for general applications.

"In choosing an electric fan for primary cooling, four cylinder engines generally require 1,600 cubic feet per minute (CFM) minimum. Six cylinder engines generally require 2,000 CFM minimum, small cubic inch eight cylinder engines require 3,000 CFM and large cubic inch eight cylinder engines require a minimum of 4,500 CFM. Recommendations are based on stock engines and regular driving conditions. CFM estimates are based on the electric fan mounted behind the radiator in a "pulling" configuration. Electric fans mounted in front of the radiator, in a "pushing" configuration, are only 80% as effective." quote from perma-cool.com.

Hope this helps everyone keep their Ds cool and kick'n. It's helped me re-think my approach to this job.

You have to remember, the wiring I setup is made for two speed fan motor. To optimize the use of both speeds, I put the A/C on the low side and the temperature switch for the high side.The low speed speed setting should be enough to pull air across the A/C condenser, but may not be enough to cool the engine with the added heat load from the condenser. This is where the temperature switch will automatically kick in and flip the fan to high speed mode to keep the engine cool and at the same time still keep the A/C cool. All this and no manual intervention from the driver. Last thing a driver needs is more distraction when they should be concentrating what is up ahead on the roads!

I would assume the CFM rating of the low speed setting of the fan should at least be half of what the high speed is. If the MarkVIII high speed is rated up to 4400 CFM, then the low speed setting guessing should be at least 2200 CFM. 2000 CFM is more than enough air flow to cool the A/C condenser coil when the D is sitting still and idling.

Remember, 2000 CFM that I am referencing is only for the low speed setting to provide enough cooling for the A/C. 2000 CFM is not enough to keep a 360 engine cool. That is where the high speed settting to give up to 4400 CFM will take over automatically when the engine temperature reaches the set temperature set point and bypass the low speed setting. Once the engine cools down to a set point on the thermostat, the high speed will dis-engage and low speed will resume if A/C is still running. If A/C is not running, the fan will not be running at all. This is an advantage for cold starts. When you cold start your D and the A/C is not running, the fan will not engage and let your D warm up quicker. This is a big plus for those owners that live in very cold climates.

Here are some scenarios of how my wiring works:

Engine hot (engine thermostat set point IE: 180 or 195) - High speed
A/C running and engine running cold/warm - Low speed
A/C running and engine running hot (engine thermostat set point IE: 180 or 195)- high speed
Engine running cold and no A/C (IE: cold start or cold winter season) - Fan is OFF

Wiring diagram shows that under no circumstances that power is simultaneously supplied to both speedsto the fan. The relays are wired so that it supplies power to either high or low or no power to fan.

Again, the wiring diagram I created is design to 100 percent automate the use of the fan on both high and low speeds without any manual user intervention just as if it was a OEM setup.

Ya Ken I think he should run it high speed only if it's enough to do the job, or run low speed on a temp control to kick on at 180 and cut out at 150 andrun the high speed to kick on at say 190-200 and cut out at 180 at which point the low speed would cycle on and pull down to 150 and cycle off.

This could be achieved using two adjustable temp controls tied into an additional relay to insure voltage supply to only one speed at a time by wiring the speed selecting relay NC to low speed and NO to high speed and the coil to the hot on the high speed after the temp control relayso the speed selectionrelay will automatically cut power to the low speed when the high speed is being called for and will switch back at 180 and then completely of at 150. In theory this should work good for cold winters as well as hot summers and if you wire it to a constantly hot power supply it will continue to cool the vehicle after you shut it off, however I would reccomend battery rundown protection if wired to a constant hot source.

You got it. But I am trying to keep things as simple to wire up for Cess. Throwing in another thermostat or subbing to a two stage thermostat may be more than Cess can absorb! http://www.dodgeforum.com/micons/m9.gif

Hence why I prefer to fork out the extra extra money and buy a two speed fan controller that can simplify all this and make everything really easy to wire up. The only bad thing to the fan controller, this is a single point of failure and not cheap to replace. The home made setup, if one of the relays goes out, you can replace it cheap or swap it with a good relay to temporary get by until you get a replacement. (In diagram, you only worry about the thermostat relay as this is the high speed relay), if this goes out, you can swap out with the A/C relay to get by temporarily.

Well since this has gotten hot I thought I'd let you guys know that my D has been running good with the e-fan, I still have to fab up a shroud for it and I will be set. The ac still brings the temp slightly above the 200 mark and I don't like that but it doesn't go past that and my ac is still nice and chilly. Once I get into school (diesel tech training) I will be able to work on the D in a shop and won't be frying my balls off at 100 degrees in the shade. I will be getting a lot of work done hopefully if they give us enough shop time. Good luck in all of your endeavors guys and if you go with a switch you may want to stick a post it on your steering wheel for the first few weeks to remind you to turn on the fan. It is like second nature for me no and I am done with messing with that end of it.

Ya but if you get two temp controls like my setup in my last post, if one fails you can jump it out and use the other for high speed until you get a new temp probe for the bad one.

Simple, if the low speed craps out, adjust the cut in on the high speed to 180, disconnect the power to the bad controller, and jump out the speed selector relay.

Same thing if ya lose a relay, chuck the bad relay, run high speedoff temp only and jump out the speed selection relay.In my cicuit there are three relays, two for temp and one for speed, as long as both temp probes don't die at the same time or two relays don't die at the same time, the circiut can be modified easily to run high only cut in at 180 and cut out at 150 in an emergency and will work until parts can be had for repair.

Worse comes to worse and you lose two relays at once or both temp probes, just wire it high speed"key on" till ya get home and put the clutch fan in until parts can be had. The probes are spendy, but 30 amp 12vdc 2 and 4 pole relays are cheap around $5-$11 at your neighborhood autoparts store.

DC electric is easy to grasp compared to 3-phase, but harder to control than single-phase ac.

We'll just have to learn o'l cess won't we. I hope his electrician buddy helps him so he has a completely reliable and effective control circuit.

I might go with twin 14" fans at 9.5 amps each at 1800 RMPs each at 2950 CFM max pull totalling 5900 CFM draw at 19 amps with both fans running.

Fan 1 cycles 180 on/ 150 off, fan 2 cycles onwith ac or 195 on/ 180 off.

The hard part will be making a custom shroud for it because I'm pretty sure the the radiator core is 26" so I'm gonna have to mount the fans in a ^ shape pointing in the center towards the engine sticking out maybe an inch or inch and a half.

MG diesel school, sounds cool. As an engineer I work on everything in the hotel from toilets to boilers, kitchen equipment, HVAC stuff and everything in between, but I've never wrenched on vehicles for money, sounds more fun than what I'm doing!

Maybe I'll open a hot rod shop when I retire, I've always wanted to earn money wrench'n on cars.

Good luck! I hope you can have fun and make the bucks at the same time!

Well the market around here will pay $70k to start with an associates, within 5-10 years I could be making upwards of $120k. All of that will be hard earned though. :D

Damn MG, CHA-CHING!

Operating engineers in my market only make 54k, without the Vegas heat creating lots of odd jobbing oportunities I'd be just scraping by.

Yes hard work it will be, but you can stand back and watch as your hard work rolls down the road, or keeps the lights on when the power goes out and say, " I did that."

Aw crap, my wife was talking to me about moving down there to Hell *ahem* I mean LV, so that would be the salary I would expect to make as a diesel tech (with a degree not a certificate)?

ORIGINAL: Mean Green

Aw crap, my wife was talking to me about moving down there to Hell *ahem* I mean LV, so that would be the salary I would expect to make as a diesel tech (with a degree not a certificate)?




I don't know what a diesel tech would make, different trade than me. I'm a stationary engineer and member of the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 501. Average "strip contract wage pkg" is about $25 hr and $5 hr in the pension fund and med. ins. is included with no premiums, you go to the doctor and pay the co-pay that's it, I got three kids and a wife on my coverage and no extra money taken from my check for their coverage. I got the hmo so scrips are 7, visits 25 secialist 50. The co-pays are a little high but when you retire you're still covered, so basically we pay extra on co-pays to cover the retirees.




House prices however still SUCK here big time. Nowadays the 30k stink holes in the gang neighborhood across the street from the cemetary downtown are going in the 200's-300's. Makes me wonder how anyone would buy there at all, and how the "crackheads" can affordremain there to insure it remains a stinkhole.



I'd wait on the market as I see many houses, even in my neighborhood that are empty and have the doors sealed with the eviction notice from the constable's office, my tract only has 68 homes in it and I counted 10 of 'em this way the last time I passed out the wife's avon brochures.



Stupid people got really bad arm loans and intrest only loans and were told "take it and refinance in a year or two" by the realitors and now houses in my neighborhood have dropped an average of 80k + in value and these people are stuck because they're upsidedown and the banks won't refi them, my house pre-con 509k now same model with 45kmore upgrades than mine offered at 440k in an open house.



The foreclosures are stacking up out here, so wait and watch, and when the banks are stuck with an overwelming inventory they'll have to liquidate fast nomatter what the cost. Last Friday on channel 8 news they reported that Las Vegas was #7 on the top 10 worst markets/ over inflated markets.



The medainwage here is still only $9hr so the market can't bear the median price of 300k for long. Only 5 years ago you coulda got a 3ksqft home here in the low 200's now they run in the 500k-2.5mil depending on the neighborhood.



If ya do move down here we got a couple of NASCAR races and lot's of drag racing events at the speedway and strip, we still have run what ya brungon Fri&Sat nights too. Just don't run an 11 because they'll tell ya not to come back without a roll cage and five points.



I got an instructor at the union hall that is a jeep freak, his jeep looks like a rock crawler, they do trails of all diffuculty levels and this guy loves all things 4x4 if ya do come down here I'll hook ya up with him, he knows all the good trails far and near, mostly far though because around here most places are govt. off limits.



Don't mind my long-windedness too much as my inlaws begged me to move in with them about a yearagobecause the can't make their 3500mo mortgage payment and they drive me nuts[sm=icon_beat.gif]
But what the hell my cut's only 600mo.



Well good luck MG and if ya do come out here I'll buyya a cold one, and help you install a swamp cooler in your garage so ya won't have to sweat it wrench'n on the D at 108F, that was the temp of my garage this afternoon[sm=badbadbad.gif]

I had a bee cool daul fan setup worked ok had problems when i pulle a 18' enclosed trailer in 100 deg heat but what finised it off was driving down the river tried a 16" wouldnt keep it cool with out the air on in 80 deg wether went back to stock

That would pretty much sums things up why you never see a Efan setup in heavy duty trucks and even light trucks. When tolling something moderate, the Efan will not suffice. But I seen some serious EFan setup designed for trucks. But at a cost. I cannot remember which company made a Efan for dodge HD trucks, but it was a dual 15 inch puller with up to 6000 CFM's. At a pretty price of nearly $600. Low amperage draw for such high CFM's at around 29 amps. this dual Efan was designed for a 5.9 cummins. If this dual efan can cool a hard working cummins, it should not even break a sweat for a gas 5.9 engine.

If you want CFM draw the perma-cool high performance series 12" & 14" are the ticket. I'm still hung up on which size to use as the 12's would fit better than the 14's.

After calling perma-cool to get the correct specs on these fans, here's what they said they could do as pullers, which they say in the puller configuration an e-fan is 80% more effective than a pusher.

PN. 19008 12" fan pulls 3000 CFM @ 2400 RPM @ 7.5 amps; dimensions 12.5"hX12"wX3.75thick
You could run two of these simultaniously for 6000 CFM @ 15 amp draw not bad! at a cost of $100 per fan.

PN 19114 14" fan pulls 2950 CFM @ 1800 RPM @ 9.5 amps; dimensions 14"hX14"wX3.75"thick
You could run two of these simultaniously for 5900 CFM @ 19 amp draw at a $120 per fan.

The thing I fear with the 14's is fit, the stock D's radiator's core surface area is about19"X26" correct me if I'm wrong, so to make up the 2" difference you'd have to fabricate a custom shroud and mountings in a "^" shaped configuration center pointing slightly towards the block to take up the 2" difference and still pull air only through the core. This is supposing there's enough room to do so.

I found this stuff in my research for the aluminum radiator build that I started a post on some time ago.

Kinda sad to see the 14 inchers not do better than the 12's. But I guess this may be intentionally as the RPM's are lower, they may have done this to reduce noise levels? Some of the oversized dual fans are tilted in a diagnol from upper corner to lower corner to maximize fan size space and fit.

Here'slink for a company that builds efans for dodge trucks.

http://www.drivetrain.com/flexfan/dodgemonster.html

I think these are actually flex-a-lite monster fans:

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/monster-electric.html

Only thing that prevents me to going to a Efan is that I may have to lose my shroud and my shroud has the coolant, and windshield coolant containers on them. Don't want to lose them and it will not give the stock OEM look.

Ken, the reason the 14's run at a lowwer RMP pulling 50 CFM less is amp draw. It takes more amps to pull the same CFM because of the larger load to the motor from the larger fan blades on the 14 that are metal as where the blade on the 12 is composite, and also the area the 14 pulls in is larger.

This is what I'm pondering, more area @ 50CFM less per fanor less area @ 50 CFM more per fan.

The amp draw you must admit is awsome only 7.5amps for 3000CFM for the 12"er and only 9.5 amps for 2950 CFM on the 14"er. The motors are pancake stylestainless roller bearrings (kick butt constuction).

BTW the mark fan I read on a ford site draws about 30 amps nominal, a lot more than the ones I found, 2 12's draw a mere 15 amps to pull 6000 CFM and2 14's 19 amps at 5900 CFM.

Forget that $590 setup making shroud/ coolant/ wiperfluid resivour issues, buy the two fans around 200 bucks, the control circuit parts $100-$250 more depending on how ya wire 'em, go junkyard hunting for shroud/ mounting parts or get a 4'X7' sheet of 20-22 gaugestainless or aluminum, some matching 1/8"thickX 1" wide flat stock and stainless nuts,bolts, and washers and fab the install to retain the stock upper shroud. Sheet metal sheers, handtools, and a drillwill do the job, but use of a sheet metal brake and plasma cutter will make it easier and quicker.

Damn I should fab one up, patten it and sell it for $250 a pop.

ORIGINAL: Lil Red Mopar
Damn I should fab one up, patten it and sell it for $250 a pop.


I thought about that if I can get them to work!

Welp, after doing alot of research, I am almost convinced that this MarkVIII fan will not be enough to cool a 5.9 Durango running with A/C in areas that can approach 100 degrees outside. Also, if you do moderate towing, and/or combine it with the a/c and outside temps, it'll run hot. A couple users that tried this already stated the obvious results with a single or dual fan setup. Bothfan setups may not had enough CFM's to keep the big engine cool. I will have to agree with Lil Mopar and go with a minimum of 6000 CFM's to keep the 5.9 cool whether it be a big single fan or dual fans.The Mark fan may work for a 4.7 or 5.2 and even then, as long as you don't really tow anything and living in very hot climates like Texas, it should be enough.

Cess it's too bad you don't live near me, I got a fridge in the garage filled with 2 cases of New Castle, a case of Heinekin, and the door is loadded with Bud Light,Miller, Coors and what ever else the tourists tip my mother-in-law. My habit is suck down a case all at once and not have another drop for 6 months.

Anyways I'd invite ya over with e-fans in hand and at the end you'd be up and runn'n no switches to have to remember about, and I'd make shure you understood how it all works, cause once ya get it it's easy nothin' to it but ta do it.

Not in an effort to confuse you, but when I was in electrical class the instructor always said to think of it as one wire, one path from start to finish. If you break down a circiut, you must have 5 things to make a complete circuit, A supply of power, conductor (wire) to move the power, a switch, a load (motor,light or other power consuming device), and a complete path to ground for the electricity to flow through, anything else is not a complete circuit and will not work.

Try looking at Ken's diagram and follow the circuit from to power supply through the switches, loads and finally to ground, and break it down, compound circuits can be broken down this way also, follow the low speed fan circuit from supply to ground, then the high speed circuit, follow it with your finger like a road map. Get the parts out and lay them out in sequence on the floor/table or what ever.Once you have them sitting there, identify all the + (power in for dc) and - ( power out dc) terminals and determine how they need to be hooked up from 1 linefrom power to first part in line up all the way to the end of the circuit being the wire to ground.

Relays, don't let them bother you they are our freind as they are the "little man under the hood" swicthing loads on and off for usautomaticly in a control circuit.

A relay is nothing more than a switch that is contolled by a coil. A basic on/off relay has 4 leads, 2 for power in and out on the swicthing side and 2 for the coil, it will be marked NO (normally open, open meaning without power to the coil it is in the off position or off when at rest) NC (normally closed or on at rest with no power to coil).

The coil when energized creates a magnetic field that moves an iron rod that is connected to contactors in the relay, in the NO relay this rod would be pulled into the coil, when energized,making the contactors connect and pass power to the load and in the NC relay the rod would be pulled into energized coil breaking the connection to the contactors by pulling them apart and cutting power to the load shutting the load off.

Damn I do wish you lived near by I'd have yacomeover, we could wire it up real quick, suck down a few beers and compare notes on our D's.

Man good luck Cess, I feel like my hands are tied, we could get 'er done in at worst an hour or two counting unforeseen cans of worms.Well I hope at least I helped in trying to give you a different perspective in which to look at the wiring end of it from.

ORIGINAL: Kensai

Welp, after doing alot of research, I am almost convinced that this MarkVIII fan will not be enough to cool a 5.9 Durango running with A/C in areas that can approach 100 degrees outside. Also, if you do moderate towing, and/or combine it with the a/c and outside temps, it'll run hot. A couple users that tried this already stated the obvious results with a single or dual fan setup. Bothfan setups may not had enough CFM's to keep the big engine cool. I will have to agree with Lil Mopar and go with a minimum of 6000 CFM's to keep the 5.9 cool whether it be a big single fan or dual fans.The Mark fan may work for a 4.7 or 5.2 and even then, as long as you don't really tow anything and living in very hot climates like Texas, it should be enough.


Ken, even with the 6000CFM setup, I think a trans cooler should also be installed seperate as in not running tranny oil through the radiator.

With the amp savings over the mark fan @ about 30 amps, the ones I scoped out pull 15amps twin 12"ers runnig at the same time and 19 amps twin 14"ers running together, this will leave some amps handy to run a 10" Perma -Cool pn 19010 @ 2100 RPM @ 1250 CFM @ 5.7 amp draw through a 11"X11"X1.5" B&M supercooler on t-stat control and this cooler also has a flow check that lets cool oil bypass the core and return to the trans as added insurance not to starve the tourque converter of oil.

The fit aint perfect as the cooler's core is only 11"X9" and the fan covers 13"X10.5"X2.5"thick, but the cooler's overall area is 11"X11" and the fan's blade is 10" in diameter so it should'nt be hard to center up the fanblade over the cooler and persuede maximum airflow through the core.

I know why not a smaller fan , well the other ones draw more amps and give less CFM, so I'm stuck on these efficiant fans for that reason. I can run three of them at an amp cost of a hair under 30amps, get the trans off the radiator and cool it's oil more efficiantly adding life expectancey to it, ditch the clutch fan adding hp&mpg and still have enough amps left to ditch the water pump for an in-line 55gpm electric unit adding yet more ponnies and mpg. I'm gonna give my 360 a present it has been missing since the late 1960's, I'm gonna give it back it's balls.

Ken, can you point me in the direction of where you read about the fan not being enough. I'd like to read there responses.

I guess at this point it would be futile to try with the mark fan again. I guess My best bet at this point is the dual 12's?

Lil red, what exactly are you talking about with the tranny cooler?

Cess,

The statement I made is my own opinion based on the research I did searching the net looking for a Efan for a Durango or even a Dodge RAM. Only Flexalites makes Efans designed for Dodge RAMS but they do not have a listing for Dakota/Durangos. But since the RAM shares the same engine(base on 5.9),maybe the RAM's may have bigger radiators, Flexalite makes DUAL efans designed for RAMS, especially for the 5.9 cummins. If they claim that 5500-6000 CFM's is enough to keep a hard working cummins cool, it should be enough for a gasoline 5.9 engine as well. With minimum CFM ratings of 5500-6000 CFM's. So I am making my judgement call that this should also apply for Dakotas and Durangos with 5.9 engines as well but may have to find a smaller dual Efan that pulls the same amount of CFM's that will fit on Dak's/Dur's the smaller radiator. Hence where Lil Mopar recommends the dual 12's that can pull 6000 CFM's with relatively low amperage draw.

With this setup, you're garuanteed the D will stay cool no matter what part of the U.S. you live in and using the A/C and towing.

Otherwise, I can see the Mark fan work for those D owners that;

Lives in the northern U.S. regions where the daily summer temps aren't as hot.90+
Do very light or no towing.
Not use A/C much.
D's with 4.7/5.2 engines.

Cess the tranny cooler thing I was yapp'n bout goes like this.

B&M makes a tranny cooler that's total dimensions (counting the "side tubs") of 11"X11"X1.5"thick.

This is the only cooler in my opinion worth slapp'n and e-fan on because it's the only one big enough to but a 10"er on. Also it has a flowcheck valve that let's already cool trany oil bypass the cooler and return to the trans, this is insurance that the trans oil will never get too cold and thicken up taking up less space and starving the torque converter F'n up the trans.

Reason for adding the trans cooler: to remove the tranny lines from the radiator relieving the radiator of the added heat load of the trans oil. I in a stock D that does'nt have tow pkg upgrades there's no tranny cooler the radiator is responsible for removing heat from both the trans and the engine.By having the trans cooled by means of a seperate cooler, if done right, should benifit the powertrain by having a trans that runs a little cooler the trans should last longer, by having the radiator only cool the engine it should do a better job without all the extra heat load of the tranny oil circulating through it.

The fan circuit for the tranny cooler would be controlled with the same type of temp probe setup used for the radiator fans. I'm buy'n 3 of 'em, one for the trans cooler and the other two for the twin radiator fans. An adjustable temp fan control set to come on at 180 and turn off at 160, I found when looking for a trans temp gauge, that the trans oil must be kept in the same temp range as the numbers on a coolant temp gauge start at about 120 and go to about 260 and the trans temp gauge numbers are the same so I figure same temps means I can use same fan control units.

The fitting issue: the B&M cooler's core area is 11"X9" and the 10 fan needs 10.5"X13" to mount. The fanblade itself is 10" diameter, so if I mount it right, the fanblade will go 0.5" past the right and left side of the core but will not see open air because this 0.5" over lap on each side will be blocked by the side-tubs of the unit. With this said, fabricating the nessisarry mounting system for this e-fan cooled trans cooler will require seriuos thought, preperation and maybe even some trade skills such as welding and sheet metal fabrication skills.

Why a 10" fan and specifically why the one I recommended by part # and make: The 10" fan I mentioned a post ago can pull 1250 CFM air flow and only draws 5.7 amps, no other 10" fan I've seen even pulls 1250 CFM and the smaller ones like a 6" pull as little as 350 CFM and suck as much as 25 amps from the electrical system, so this is why my fan and trans cooler shopping list look this way.

My build will have 2 12"ers on radiator pulling 6000CFM @ 15amps and the trans cooler a 10"er pulling 1250 CFM @ 5.7 amps. System net CFM = 7250 System net amp draw 20.7 amps. I'm pretty sure that my stock e-fan pulls 30amps and it sucks compared to what I'm about to do, because if I'm right the new set up will draw less amps than the stock secondary fan so I won't have to upgrade my alternator and I should have enough capacity to run an inline electric water pump that pumps 55GPM so I can ditch the stock water pump and add more hp and cooling capacity, the stock water pump only pumps in the neighborhood of 20GPM.

It may sound overkill but tranny's and engines aint cheap and overkill is this engineer's middle name , when I fix something I intend on making it last a while.

I have the tow package on my 99. So I do have a seperate Tranny cooler, right? on front of the radiator?

Very good info!!

Ihave not yet done the E Fan conversion for the reasons mentioned above. It gets 100+ here often and pulling a 22' camp trailer in that heat would just overpower a E Fan set up such as the Mark 5 set up.
Reading lil red mopars posts confirms that in my mind. I am a HVAC/ tin bangerguy, I dont think bending up a shroud out of metal would be to tough. It could be made as thin as possible to keep it close to the rad then we could cut the holes for the fans where we wanted and mount the fans over those holes....
I'll look into this in the future but I'll guess even a sheet metal shop could make something if givin the specs for less than $100.00. we would prob need to figure out the mounting tabs (they could be bent to be in the correct place but they may charge more for this).

ORIGINAL: cesspool

I have the tow package on my 99. So I do have a seperate Tranny cooler, right? on front of the radiator?

From B&M's site
"70274 - SuperCooler rated at 29,200 BTU 11"x11"x1-1/2" (Racing model doesn't include installation components and has female 1/2 NPT fittings). Can also be used for all fluid cooling needs."

Cess, there aint no way the oem aux. trans cooler can do what the above one does and at about $100 a pop (oem core at Mopar wholesale costs $217). I believe the numbers B&M are giving don't count adding the 1250 CFM 10" fan I was talking about adding.MY suggestion was to add the above cooler and fan and to absolutely not run any trans oil through the main radiator because it takes away from the main radiator's cooling capacity by means of the the heat generated from the trans. I think the oem cooler is only an addon and plumbed is series with the main radiator, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyhow if you want to ditch the clutch fan for e-fans and plan on towwing I think ditch the mark fan and build the setup with way more cooling capacity than even the clutch fan has.I'm an engineer by trade and like "bullet proof stuff" and I'm pretty sure the setup I researched and parted together should be more than enough to do the job. I'm going to set my D up just like this with the addition of an inline 55GPM electric water pump and a 31"X19"X1" 2row tig welded side tubs 100% aluminum cross-flow radiator(stock is 2 row aluminum core plasic side tubs that will eventually blow out).The number one thing that you should be concerned with is cooling capacity and though the build I speak of aint easy, it has cooling capacity that far out measures that of those prefab twin fan setups and also requires only a fraction of the amp draw on the vehicle's electrical system witch is the second most important aspect of doing this, because you can have the uber fan from hell, but it won't work if the electrical system can't carry the load.

Anyway if you have the stock aux trans cooler, upgrading to the B&M one I mentioned even without doing anything else will add cooling capacity to the system in leaps and bounds from stock.

If you don't have the stock one this will be a serious improvement 10 times over.

Just pop the hood and follow the lines, I if it looks like you have 3 sepperate "radiators" you got one.
It will look like this: Biggest; the radiator; next size down condenser coil (for AC); smallest; aux trans cooler.If not the second one is the condenser coil.

ORIGINAL: zukgod1

Very good info!!

Ihave not yet done the E Fan conversion for the reasons mentioned above. It gets 100+ here often and pulling a 22' camp trailer in that heat would just overpower a E Fan set up such as the Mark 5 set up.
Reading lil red mopars posts confirms that in my mind. I am a HVAC/ tin bangerguy, I dont think bending up a shroud out of metal would be to tough. It could be made as thin as possible to keep it close to the rad then we could cut the holes for the fans where we wanted and mount the fans over those holes....
I'll look into this in the future but I'll guess even a sheet metal shop could make something if givin the specs for less than $100.00. we would prob need to figure out the mounting tabs (they could be bent to be in the correct place but they may charge more for this).



Zuk, I'm a certified card hold'n sob from the I.U.O.E. Local 501. HAVCR/MVAC&MVAC like EPA 608 Universal card & EPA 609 card, ICC Clark County Journeyman Electrician card holder, tig, mig, stick, and oxy/acetlene welder, plumber, plant man ( boilers, chillers, cooling towers, heat exchangers loop and domestict hot water pumps, pneumatic controls........ ) currently the watertreatment man overseeing the entire plant and I'm not even finished with my apprenticeship.

Anyways enough about trade stuff as all that only nets $25hr, I make more fix'n ac's on the side.
If you get a 4'X7' sheet of I wanna say 20 or maybe 22 gauge aluminum, cut out all the tabs, bend it on the sheet break and weld ityourself you'll come out was cheapper and have exactly what you want,