Need help fast

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Need help fast - 3/16/2007 4:28:22 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline so we've been messing with a 1996 chrysler concorde 3.5L, for about a week now, and we have a no start, no spark.  It cranks.  We have signal, power and ground at crank and cam sensor.  We have power to our coils, but no signal to coil.  We've tested continuity in wires, looked for loose grounds.  We've tried everything time and time again.  It cranks fine, and you can hear fuel pump turn on, and there's pressure in the fuel lines.  since we had signal, and fuel pump, we didn't think it was auto shut down. We tried to just throw in a crank sensor last night for shits because we're at our wits end, and whats better than throwing parts at it? ...no luck. so we thought it had to be the ignition module in the PCM, we got one from the junk yard, and its not working either?  Do you have to unhoook the battery and clear the codes or anyting with the PCM?? the flash diagnostics only gave us a low battery code. What could we have missed?  any other ideas?  Thanks in advance. < Message edited by BigBlocksnHardRock -- 3/16/2007 4:29:46 PM > Post #: 1

RE: Need help fast - 3/16/2007 5:43:57 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline oops, never mind. < Message edited by BigBlocksnHardRock -- 3/16/2007 5:48:28 PM > (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 2

RE: Need help fast - 3/16/2007 5:51:22 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline oops, nevermind on the reply. the question still stands. (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 3

RE: Need help fast - 3/17/2007 4:22:17 PM    kurts2   Posts: 591 Joined: 10/27/2006 Status: offline How is the timing belt (broken maybe)? The ASD has more than one contact set, you could swap in a relay. The ASD will energise, and then de-energize if it dosn't get a CAM possition signal (the crank sensor comes in latter). Try this, put a test light on the B+ contact of the coil pack (should be a dark green with orange strip wire), be CAREFUL not to spread the contacts as this can cause the very problem you are having!!  Turn the key to the on pos. and leave it there.  The test light should flash once.  If it didn't flash, the ASD relay didn't energize. There are thigs to check if it flases once also.  Let me know what happens. (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 4

RE: Need help fast - 3/17/2007 6:03:35 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline new belt, we just did head gaskets. we've pretty much done everyting else you've said.  swapped relays, checked batteyr power, checked coil wires, checked all signals at cam and crank.  serioulsy, we've done everything we were supposed to.  Even checked AllData. thats why we're so stuck. (in reply to kurts2) Post #: 5

RE: Need help fast - 3/18/2007 3:44:53 PM    moparmudder   Posts: 7 Joined: 3/18/2007 Status: offline hey it sounds like it could be a computer problem.. did u check the pressure of fuel with a gauge? i think u said u did but yes it sounds more of a computer problem (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 6

RE: Need help fast - 3/18/2007 7:30:05 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline we don't have a fuel pressure guage, but we've squirted it out of the schrader valve a few times, so its definately there. plus, we've got cam sensor signal, and we've got no spark at the coils. (in reply to moparmudder) Post #: 7

RE: Need help fast - 3/18/2007 10:44:24 PM    kurts2   Posts: 591 Joined: 10/27/2006 Status: offline So what was the outcome of the test?  Depending on the answer lies the answer to a no spark issue. (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 8

RE: Need help fast - 3/18/2007 11:07:32 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: kurts2 So what was the outcome of the test?  Depending on the answer lies the answer to a no spark issue. we had already tested signal at the coil driver wires.  We have a constant voltage at all of them.  so its pretty much got to be the ignition control module not pulsing.  so PCM. (in reply to kurts2) Post #: 9

RE: Need help fast - 3/18/2007 11:17:39 PM    kurts2   Posts: 591 Joined: 10/27/2006 Status: offline Did you ever try a test light?  OK, if not, a constant voltage could be a blinking light at a fast pulse.  Try the light.  If it stays on, it sound like a short circuit.  With the key in the on position (not start or running/turning over) the light shoul only flash once.  Is this not the case? 3 possible outcomes: 1.  light stays on (or pulese on constantly) 2.  Light blinks 3.  Light never flashes Note:  This can be applied to a multimeter, but is much simpiler to see as a light.  < Message edited by kurts2 -- 3/18/2007 11:36:57 PM > (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 10

RE: Need help fast - 3/19/2007 6:53:47 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline light stays on constantly,  no blinks at all. (in reply to kurts2) Post #: 11

RE: Need help fast - 3/19/2007 8:58:23 PM    kurts2   Posts: 591 Joined: 10/27/2006 Status: offline It sounds like a short.  Pull the ASD relay and check again.  Is the light out (or voltage)?  If ok, plug relay back in and disconnect the crank sensor.  put key on, is light on? Do you have a schematic of this system?  It sounds like you know what byou are doing and I don't mean to spoon feed this info. but without a proper diagram, you will not be able to complete this on your own.  That is of course without lots of unplug this and check thats.  If you do have a schematic, look to a short on that pin or why your signal is still present with the engine off (key in the on poss), you should have a flash once (the ASD relay should only remain energized if the controller senses a crankshatf position sensor signal immediatley after detecting the crankshatft sensor signal). (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 12

RE: Need help fast - 3/20/2007 8:53:31 AM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline we can get any schmatic we need.  But what should we check and where??? When we pull the ASD relay, do we still want to look at the coil driver wires and a test light, if no light, then no short??? do we pull the crank sensor at the same time as pulling the ASD relay? we don't have light on the test light on the coil wires with engine off, just with engine cranking. (in reply to kurts2) Post #: 13

RE: Need help fast - 3/20/2007 7:12:21 PM    BigBlocksnHardRock   Posts: 22 Joined: 3/16/2007 Status: offline okay man here we go... we were told that we had to hook the test light up to battery positive since the coil driver wires are tehcnically ground wires. So with it set up like that, we have light with no crank and ASD pulled, light stays on when cranking and ASD pulled. Light is on when crank sensor is pulled but when cranking the light goes off. sooo...now i'm confused. if the test light was hooked to ground, no light with ASD unplugged key off, no light when cranking.  stays lit when cranking with crank sensor pulled. where should we start looking, that is a short right? < Message edited by BigBlocksnHardRock -- 3/20/2007 7:31:46 PM > (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 14

RE: Need help fast - 3/21/2007 9:39:40 PM    kurts2   Posts: 591 Joined: 10/27/2006 Status: offline Here is a short quick entry, I saw you posts and questions, but can't answer right now....later tonight I will(or tomorow), sorry for not being available right now. (in reply to BigBlocksnHardRock) Post #: 15

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