Am i missing something or should "cold air intake" actually be called "fairly luke warm air intake"

I would think the tube,whether it be steel or abs, gets hot enough in the engine compartment

to warm the air as it goes in the intake. The stockair box does the same thing....so why not

just put a K&N filter in the stock air box ???? .....Or does the "cold air intake" connect to the A/C

magically,or wirelessly some how and cool the air before it goes in...???

Aside from Looking Cool,is there a real purpose ?

haha nothing realy, makes people feel beter, you should see they dyno curve, there is about .5 hp gain, one benifit is the air moves more freeley, in the tube no baffling, this is known as one of the most expensive dollar per hp out there...be cheaper per hp to bore out the whole motor...

The "cold air intake" aftermarket business is highly profitable.
Mark ups are in the 100-200% range.

If vehicle owners began checking their
MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure)
and IAT sensor (intake air temperature)
before and after the modification
this whole business would collapse.

But 99% of vehicle owners don't check the MAP or IAT.

They just hear the new noise,
and are happy,
are usually extra happy
if the aftermarket gizmodo is brightly colored.

This is a shame
because there are ways to spend $200-300
that will improve both acceleration and fuel economy.

As far as the common question:
does it matter if the intake materials are conductive metal versus insulating plastic?

The short answer is: it only matters at engine idle where air flow is slow and times for heat transfer are long. At full throttle and rpms above 2000 the airflow is fast enough that the time spent travelling through the intake does not allow for much heat transfer.

Want to know how to calculate this for yourself
and are not afraid of math?

http://www.hrs-spiratube.com/en/resources/heat_transfer_fundamentals_01_05.aspx

Well if you get a REAL CAI then it does help. Anything with the filter under the hood isn't gonna help. It's sucking hot air. My filter is right behind the bumper directly behind the foglight. That's about as far away from engine heat as you can get. The air IS gonna get heated by the tube it's flowing through. But if the air you're sucking is ambient air (70*-100*) andis cooler before it goes through the tube, it's still gonna be cooler when it reaches the intake manifoldthan if the air was sucked from beneath the hood (200*). Factory airboxes are WAY better than most aftermarket "cold" air intakes. The engineers at the factory didn't spend all that time designing the intake to suck air from the fender, hood, or some other location outside of the engine bay just for ****s n' giggles. The only disadvantage of factory intakes is air flow. They are usually pretty restrictive. So if you get an aftermarket intake, and suck the air from outside the engine bay, you are most certainly going to see an increase in power. Every 10* temp change is equal to 1HP! So if you're cooling the air at the manifold by 50*-100*, that's 5-10HP. Doesnt seem like a whole lot, but a true 5-10Hp is quite a bit, and it's a lot more when combined with other aftermarket mods.

while it is called a CAI, the only purpose is not to just suck cooler air. It is to suck a larger volume of less turbulantandhopefully cooler air. If you live in the desert at 120 (havasu is hot as f*ck) then pulling cold air is not going to happen, but you can still get more air and due to the design of the intake being just a tube without bends and ribs and such, you will feel a difference.

Dyno charts don't lie ;)

You will be surprised how much of a positive effect you can get by wrapping your new CAI with some heat gaurd wrap. People need to think this through.

To say that you get .5 hp gain out of a CAI versus a stock intake is a rather misled. While the numbers gained are not as high as other modifications, you can make this a very realistic power gainer. I started a thread a little while ago about a CAI that I purchased for less than $70. (Pictures are included)

http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_713323/tm.htm

This kit pulls air out of the fender, which is holding outside ambient temp. air. Will it heat up before it hits the throttle body? Of course. As high as the stock setup? Of course not. The only limit to how well a kit like this will work is your imagination. I have some header wrap left over from a project I recently finished on my race bike. I am going to used the leftover wrap to cover the aluminum piping between the filter and the throttle body air hat. This will certainly drop intake temps. Another advantage about this kit is the fact that air from the engine compartment is seperated from the air being drawn from the fender by a metal divider. Will this metal heat up? Of course, but with applying some more of the heat wrap, it will also be much more effective than simply not being there.

In the end, a CAI can be a great advantage. Would I pay $250+ for one? Why would I when anyone here could buy a similar kit and make it an extremely cost-effecient mod. Let's lowball a HP gain of 5 HP. It has hard to find aperformance gain with the cost ratio (HP:Dollar)of 14:1.

I am eager to hear more opinions on this subject. Some good points have been brought up.

I bought my "CAI" off of ebay for less than 40 dollars shipped to me. The whole setup looks alot like the one that virused put on his truck, except that my filter is not as long, and there is no air hat it goes directly in the the throttle body. Yes i knew right off the bat that it is suking air almost straight off the manifold but I wanted to try it for 40 bucks I didn't have much to lose. When i took it for a drive and romped on it two things happened: I liked the new sound, and there was a fairly significant gain in how much harder the truck pulled. I plan on addressing the fact that I don't have a heat shield next to the filter and I also plan on wrapping the tube with header wrap or somthing like it. But my $40 intake has definitly earned its keep to stay on my truck.

ORIGINAL: 2000Dakotadriver
When i took it for a drive and romped on it two things happened: I liked the new sound, and there was a fairly significant gain in how much harder the truck pulled.


The sound made your mind believe it was pulling harder. Even with 5-10hp gain from a TRUE CAI, you wouldnt be able to tell by the seat of your pants. Onlya Dyno would show an increase like that.

ORIGINAL: rtkota5point9
The sound made your mind believe it was pulling harder. Even with 5-10hp gain from a TRUE CAI, you wouldnt be able to tell by the seat of your pants. Onlya Dyno would show an increase like that.


This is correct. The seat-dyno never works. However, he might have felt a better throttle response.

maybe

Reread the title to your post...you don't want to walk through certain parts of town and say that out loud.

[sm=noooo.gif][sm=noooo.gif]

rtkota5point9 can you post a pic of your intake. You said it is behind the foglight. I am very interested to see how it looks and how it is designed. IGNORE I SAW THE PHOTO GALLERY

I can see what rtkota5point9 is saying. As much as I would like to think my seat of the pants dyno probably is not as accurate as I would like to think it is. Although I also agree with virused throttle response did improve. Even if the hp gains were minimal.

you can gain just as much with a good air filter and yes if you do get air from out of the engine yes you can gain up to 5-10 hp BUT you wont feel it...but yes they do sound neat and look nice

ORIGINAL: imnothot02

you can gain just as much with a good air filter and yes if you do get air from out of the engine yes you can gain up to 5-10 hp BUT you wont feel it...but yes they do sound neat and look nice


I just need to get this straight. You are saying that you believe you will get the same hp gain from a drop in filter as you will with a complete CAI? I need to get some of the stuff you are smoking. Also, it seems in your above post that you don't even want 5-10 horses...like it is a burden for you.[sm=dontgetit.gif]

Also, you might be interested in looking at the dyno chart below. This is from a member who purchased a new throttle body from fastman. Compare those gained hp/torque numbers to that of a CAI; then consider the money spent for both.

http://www.dodgeforum.com/upfiles/31284/CB2CD9840E7B4C2C83C4DEDBE7B3916F.jpg

That dyno chart is hard to read.

So the fastman throttle body gained a bunch of low-end torque but over 3500rpm it was basically a wash, and it lost peak hp but gained a few above about 3800 and a lot under 3400?

What other mods does that motor have? Was it a chassis dyno doing a guestimate of flywheel, or an engine dyno?

Not bad numbers, but to me it honestly looks like the torque converter lockup happened a little lower on run 2 causing the much greater low-rpm curve, and from there it seems like pretty much a wash between the TB anda CAI.

Glad I only paid $100 for my FIPK.

ORIGINAL: horatio102
What other mods does that motor have? Was it a chassis dyno doing a guestimate of flywheel, or an engine dyno?


I was surprised to see such a gain in the lower rpm range. Like you said, I assume there was a lockuperror of some kind as well on the first run. A larger Tb will always give you higher rpm gains, not lower. However, with the mods this truck already has (Owner is superdak05 in the gen3 forums) significant HP gains in the lower rpm range could be very possible:

206 Cams, PCM piggyback Jet stage2, catback exhaust, punched out cat, "iat adjuster", 93 octane, K&N intake.

I took this from here:
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_633000/tm.htm(12/2/2006)

He most likely has done other mods since this post. For further infomation on his mods, contact him:
http://www.dodgeforum.com/showProfile.asp?memid=31284

not a burden, but i havnt seen a cai that is a true cai on here, if it was you wouldnt want to use it except for nice sunny days on road, and for me that seems kinda silly...

ORIGINAL: imnothot02

not a burden, but i havnt seen a cai that is a true cai on here, if it was you wouldnt want to use it except for nice sunny days on road, and for me that seems kinda silly...


Take the intake I installed on my Dak for example. It has a heat shield that seperates the filter from the hot air of the engine compartment. The only inlet for air, is the outside ambient temperature air that enters through the large opening over the wheelwell. Please explain to me how this is not a true CAI.

never seen urs...but if it does then yes its a true cai...but like you said its in the wheel area...which when its raining or offroading ur gna have to either suck water, or clean the filter alot...

I think you need to open your hood and look at the spot I am talking about. Look where your stock air box is located. To the left of it, there is a hole on the inside of the passenger's side fender. This is where the air is being drawn from. Don't respond to this until you have actually taken the time to look at what I am talking about. You will then realize what I am saying.

i know how the stock box has a down tube...BUT if you see most of the aftermarket CAI kits don't have shrouding..this if you look back is what i was talking about not attacking your truck...

Chris i would swear you have stock in CAI kits......keep your panties on...hehe.

I think the bottom line is, you will gain a little HP if the diameter of the CAI tube is larger
than a stock one AND only at wide open throttle....Because the air is being sucked in faster
than it can heat up in the very hot tube in the very hot engine compartment....

AGREED ???

Furthermore Chris, don't think that heat shieldis foolin anyone.....When your hood is closed
the entire engine compartment heats up...That big beautifully air filter you have is sucking air from
where ever is close....which happens to be your engine compartment...
In your favour,that gorgeous 4" stainless steeltube will help get the air in quicker...

Remember....Just my opinion

i second that!:D i like them like others have said, they sound cool, gains...not really, i think its a mute point its like all mods its what the owner wants, doesn't mater what anybody else thinks as long as the owner is proud of it..[sm=nxsmile.gif]

I've made all my CAI. and I'm backing virused up on this one.

his heat shield will bock the hot air the fan from the motor is spinning around. and if you look at your truck. you will see the holes in the fender. and it will suck air in from there. I'm not saying it's pulling in 100% cold air. but its pulling in a good amount.

alot of people will buy an intake with out the heatshield. and it will just pull in hot air from the engine bay. the first intake I built for the 99 did that. then later I put on a diamond plate heatshield. and now it sucks it in from the fender.


and the intake I built for the 88 is 100% cold air. I attatched a piece of pipe to the TB and the added a cone fiter on top of it so the filter sticks out of the hood. so it gets 100% true cold air. and when it's raining, I put a cover on the front ofthe scoop to stop the rain.



so lets end this stupid debate[:'(]

Are you kidding me jonnymagnum.....Have u seen virused setup...I know there are holes in the
fender....But no matter how much u WILL it to pull air from there,without a sealed tube GOING there,its
not, its going to pull from around the filter....Which isstill in the hot engine bay.Sure there is outside air mixing with the hot engine air but with the hood downitsnot going to dissipate as much as running a tube right to the fenderhole.

In order for JUST air to increase HP it needs to be as cold and dense as possible, so taking it from the engine bay (whether there is a piece of metal blocking one side or not) is not going to be as efficient as taking it from OUTSIDE the engine compartment.

Love your setup on your 1988 dodge by the way....VERY COOL....lol...no pun intended.

I agree the horse is dead !!!

snorkel anybody?[sm=massbounce.gif]

Alright. Sorry if earlier it seemed as if I was getting butt hurt; I wasn't. Threads like these are where the best info can be gathered, if provided. I suggest we conduct a test to see what exactly the facts are. I am going to get some battery operated thermometers, which will be mounted inside the engine bay. One will be mounted inside the area that is blocked off by the heat shield, the other temp sensor will be mounted without the protection of the heat shield. On average, it is a rule that for every 20 degrees droppedof intaketemp, itis equivelant to one HP, due to the air being denser. Hopefully this will help put this to rest. I will post up pictures to show that I am not rigging this in any way. I would like to know the truth about what the pros and cons are to a "CAI" mounted inside the engine bay.

How does this sound?

sounds good:D

Now your talking............an experiment....I love experiments!!!!

You know we could sent this one to The Mythbusters......lol

Sounds awesome. It's 10* = 1HP though. Not 20. Too bad there wasnt a way to get the temp sensor INSIDE the intake tube near the TB and take a reading with the heatshield on, then with it off at X mph. But your test should show some goodnumbers too.

Sorry I'm late to this debate and I would like to know the results of your experiment virused. I think that the radiant heat in the engine compartment will probably heat up the air around the "cold air" filter even with a heat shieldjust as much or more as the air coming through the stock air box. I've thought of making a home brew CAI with the filter being located entirely outside the engine compartment but after pretty thoroughly studying it think that it is not worthwhile for a relatively insignificant gain. I'll just be satisfied with the drop in K&N I guess. If I was going to spend a couple hundred for performance gains I'd probably go for a larger throttlebody or performance muffler and not a CAI though.;)

Just to clear up the matter of cost, I picked up the whole kit (K&N knock-off filter, 4" piping, enlarged throttle body air hat, heat shield, throttle body spacer with new gaskets and all hardware (free to anyone who wants it), all hardware, couplings and padding for less than $70 shipped. That is less than $20 more than just a drop-in K&N for our trucks. Just my $.02

I would love to see this experiments numbers. It would be cool if you could get the temp of the air going into the plenum, but the numbers produced by virused should be a close estimate of the air temperature going into the plenum.

yes this does sound like a good experiment, Ive always wondered myself!

I just installed a CAI AEM 4" Tubing with heatshield and bigger air hat, the only diffrence to me is the sound of my exhuast, and the sound of the intake sucking in air. As for performace, meh i dont know ill let the dyno take care of that, but i also have a functional ram air hood, at high speeds air rushing through my scoops and blows out right on top of my filter. So i have a bity more air coming through instead of the stock fender crap.

Also Virus guess what! lol ill be getting my TB pretty damn soon. Maybe tomorrow nigjht depends on my pay check if not tomorrow night then 2 weeks from today. Then ill take it down and dyno it, and post my results. :) Its been a long time, but ive had some problems with work and bills and ****. I have to get sick with no insuance and end up paying 3k to the doctors.

my dyno run was done on a chasy dyno with 20 degree temps outside. just did two pulls for ha ha. going to get more runs done when it is warmer outside. but as far as cai. i have the k / n fipk on my 05 dak and noticed a difference. much larger in diameter and hardly any restrictions. i also have the heat shield. but you are correct when the truck is sitting at a light and idleing the tube will get hot. no matter what. but a true cai. gets the air from outside . even though my filter sits in frt of the fender opening. it still will draw warm air at traffic lights. the only true way to get engine heat out of the compartment is by fender vents or some type of cowl hood. so unless there is piping from outside the engine compartment it really is not a true cai.or some type of hood that allows cooler air in. like the older chevelles and camaros did.

thank you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just install a tube that runs on dry ice or an intercoler

Well, I have to go down the home depot this weekend and buy a couple of small, battery operated temp sensors. I enjoy the posts about this subject. I hope people realize that when I started posting in this thread, I wasn't trying to say people are right or wrong. I understand that a true CAI will be drawing outside, ambient air and that's all. However, to do this to our trucks, a new hood and other expensive mods will have to be purchased. My point from the beginning is that similar results (not exact) can be reached with the project I have done. I am eager to see some of the temp readings, as I have covered the intake tube, and sides of the heat shield in header wrap. I will test it at idle (30 minutes) and driving highway (30 minutes). We will see if this mod, as inexpensive as it is, is worth it.

User2006, good to see you, it has been a while. I can't wait to see the results. You have a nice truck brewing over there. ;)

Here is the cold air installed

http://www.gal-xz-visuals.com/pics/intake1.jpg

http://www.gal-xz-visuals.com/pics/intake2.jpg

http://www.gal-xz-visuals.com/pics/intake3.jpg

Now that isa hot truck. Best of luck virused in this experiment and keep us posted with pics and descriptions. This experiment should put to rest the problems with or myths about Cold Air Intakes.

Nice air hat user2006......that looks alot bigger than the stock one....

I wonder if one could use the A/C to somehow cool the air going in.....hhhmmmm.

Virused is it possible for you to put a temp. sensor inside the intake pipe without it touching the pipe ???
I think reading the temp. inside the tube would be more acurate.....then u just need to buy one sensor....
What do you think ???

Its the hat that comes with the AEM Intake kit, you cant use the old one its a 3" opening, this is 4" piping gota have a bigger hat.

Also im about to sell it off probably or give it away, after my tb, im going to get the K&N hat, the powerd coated black one with white chrome stripes.

but, ya..

My CAI made a diffrence. I was out messing around about 30 min ago, and it feels like a got better throttle response, also before i was running real rich, this seems to have made me run a bit more lean, im about to install some gauges so i can monitor this, i got a A/F, Vaccum, and Fuel Pressure im about to put in.

I would say the CAI is more of just a faster flowning item. Stock crap is way to complicated air slows down.. these make it go though faster and more at a time. More air = better performance even if it is still the same temp..

Another test is to take 2 intakes, one aftermarket and one stock, messure the temp on both and see witch ones puts down more hp, then change the temp of the CAI to a bit hotter then the stock one and see what you get..

Meh.. im babbling now.. ill stop.

I might try out that setup you put on your truck Virused. Sounds like you've been pretty happy with it so far.
That heat shieldprobably helps toprevent the filter from drawing in too much warm air from the engine, but I guess it's unavoidable that it would heat it up a little unless you go with a setup like rtkota has.
Unfortunately that would be dangerous for offroading so it's not really an option for me.
As far as the air warming up inside the intake tube, even if that 4" tube does heat up, wouldn't the air be passing through the tube fast enough that it wouldn't have time to change temperature? I mean that tube can't be more than two feet long, so I'm assuming the air being fed into the intake would only spend a matter ofa second or twoinside the CAI.
Don't really know, but that seems to make sense to me.

rtkota - Those are some pretty sweet looking headlights you have on your truck.
Just wondering where you got them, and if replacing them has had any effect on the brightness of your headlights?

ORIGINAL: 1....MAVRICK

Nice air hat user2006......that looks alot bigger than the stock one....

I wonder if one could use the A/C to somehow cool the air going in.....hhhmmmm.

Virused is it possible for you to put a temp. sensor inside the intake pipe without it touching the pipe ???
I think reading the temp. inside the tube would be more acurate.....then u just need to buy one sensor....
What do you think ???





I can do that later. The reason I am doing it in the first place is to measure the difference in air temp between the air that is protected from the heat shield, and the air that is not.

Y'all still don't have true CAI unless the filter is located outside the engine compartment. I had one on my 240. It has a snorkel that connects via silicone elbow to the intake tube which places the filter under the front 1/4 panel outside the engine compartment. I live in Florida so in the summer I would remove the CAI tube and have the filter installed under the hood. I also had a heat shield that seperated the filter from the engine bay. From my experience, in the winter the CAI had a gain. In the summer I actually lost power from heat soak, with or without the shield. On a side note, before I got the CAI extension tube I ghetto fabbed a 45 degree rain gutter elbow that would direct cold air to the K&N filter using existing whole in the engine bay. It worked!

My true cld air intake didnt cost anything besides a little extra piping. My tube runs over the battery and into the fender on the drivers side, then I cut a 4"hole in the plate that seperates the bottom of the fender from behind the bumper and put my filter right there behind the foglight. I'll take some pics sometime. Right now I'm using a plexible rubber tubing for the piping, but I'll eventually have it in metal as soon as I can find somone local that can bend 4" tubing.

While changing the oil in my son's 96 Dakota this morning,I noticed that his fresh air tube runs directly to the radiator support on the passenger side. It is the factory setup and has a baffle type enclosure to keep water and debris out of the intake but it is in the direct path of the air blast through the grill. Interesting that they changed the design on the second generation to air intake from the fenderwell area. Don't know if it would be because of less frontal areaof the grill or did they find there really wasn't that much of a performance advantage between the two locations?[sm=confused06.gif]

ya, my 88 dak used to have the same setup. I drilled acouple holes in it so it wuld flow abit better.

but acouple people have switched to that set up. I know meangrean did. and he noticed a difference.

my truck still uses the Stock air box but i removed the tube that draws the air and replaced it and ran it in between the Headlight and the radiator so it gets 100% air from outside the engine bay and is somewhat forced in when driving down the road.I alwaysstick it back in the fender when it rains though.

I got a CAI on ebay as well and it cost me 27 dollars with shipping. Thats about seven dollars more than you would pay for a stock filter, and the throttle response i noticed was way cool. I never got that with the stock air filter. and no my air isn't cold but it diffently has a better air mixture going on, so i guess to answer the question the yes it should be called "fairly luke warm air intake"

Different solution: Reflexxions cowl hood with the center bracing removed. K&N 14" round filter w/K&N X-Stream filter lid. Modified 'shaker' hood scoop (bottom half) as cold air box. Does it work? Yepper! Above 40mph the cowl works like a champ. :)

what happened to the experement i wanted to see the #'s!!! [:-][:'(]

I was looking for this post too, but I couldnt find it. maybe virused got a lil side tracked and forgot about it.

guessing so i havnt seen his posts latley

Why wait for someone else to do this experiment?

Is is not true 'science' unless two people do the experiment
and find that their results about the same.
{they never exactly match. Perfect matches are signs of fraud}

Here's some suggested ways to do the air intake test:
-----
Two great American brothers
with only high school educations
had a DIY project
that they eventually called the 'Airplane'
but like the Wright Brothers
you need to do your DIY project with careful testing.

If you want a real answer you can trust about an air intake design,
then........

Go down to Sears and buy one of the $30-70 multimeters with the temperature
probe. Sometimes they are on sale for $19

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Electrical+Shop&pid=03482139000&ver tical=TOOL&subcat=Multi-Meters%2C+Testers+%26+Accessories&BV_UseBVCookie=Y es

or

http://tinyurl.com/ywcsxv

http://s7.sears.com/is/image/Sears/03482139000?rgn=0,0,640,640&scl=2.56&fmt=jpeg

Later you can use this relatively cheap multimeter and its Type K thermocouple
to 'balance' your exhaust gas temperatures by swapping around the highest
flowing fuel injectors to the highest flowing intake ports....but that is
another story.

Then buy one of these $30 gauges that can measure low pressures and buy a
length of plastic tubing about 10 feet long to attach to it:

http://flw.com/olash2.htm#1490

Get the 30/30" pressure model.

If you don't want to spend this money you can also make a simple "U tube
manometer" with just a 20 foot length of clear plastic tubing and a yardstick:
http://63.240.161.99/bitog/airfilter/mano1.jpg

Now drill small 1/16 th inch diameter holes in your stock air filter housing
and air inlet tubing,
like at:

1. at the begining of the inlet tube
2. in front of the air filter element
3. behind the air filter element
4. near the throttle body connection

Put a fresh new air filter element in your stock filter box. Go out on a road
with little traffic and measure the temperature and pressures at your small
hole test points of the stock system when the engine is at wide open throttle
through the 2000 to 6000 rpm range.

If you find between two points that the temperature goes up, then the air is
picking up heat in that length between the two points. (i predict you won't
find much heat pickup)

If you find that the pressures go down between two points then there is
restriction in that section, like across the filter element ( i predict you
will only find a small restriction across the paper element of the filter)

Now try moving the air inlet to the stock filter box from its stock location
to other places - like the grille top or bottom. Look for a place where the
pressure is highest and the temperature is lowest. (I predict you will find
that the cavity behind the firewall and below the windshield will be best -
this is also where your air vents pick up air to ventilate the truck's cabin)

Now, if you are a bit more adventurous try the following experiment:

With all the stock air system in place, put the truck in 2nd gear and measure
with a stop watch how many seconds it takes to accelerate from 3000 rpm to
6000 rpm with wide open throttle. Do this test 3 times and average the
result.

Now if you are a little more daring and have found a clean road with little
dust in the air, think about doing the following 2 tests (it is optional but
informative)

Do the same test from 3000 to 6000 rpm, but with the paper air filter removed
from the box, and the box closed back up. This is the 'no filter but cool air
pickup' test.

Then do the same test, but with the air intake system removed and the throttle
body opening sucking the hot air from underneath the hood. This is the 'no
filter hot air pickup test.'

The above tests sound dangerous without an air filter, but I can tell you
that many highway patrol officers removed the air filters on their cars in the
1970s. I have personally seen people pour uncooked rice down carburetors to
scour out carbon deposits. Lack of an air filter over long periods will cause
the bore walls and piston rings to wear out much quicker, but a quick test has
little effect unless you are unlucky enough to get a large chunk of something
down the throttle. If you are worried you can cover the throttle opening with
some eighth inch hole window screen material or mesh stocking. Note that these volunteers did open open throttle/no filter test of a 5.7 Hemi in an LX on a rear wheel dyno:

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=14140

look at runs 7,8,9 and see how the hp was down compared to the 280 hp of the stock factory airbox.

Now go order the aftermarket air inlet systems of your choice and repeat the
pressure, temperature and 3000-6000 rpm acceleration tests in 2nd gear. Send
back the systems that don't do as well as the best for a refund of your money.

Report your results to automotive forums.
You will be a hero to some,
the worst possible news to others selling junk.

WWWOOWW..........Thanx Hankl for posting the Dino results....

Thats about as controlled of an experiment as you are going to get.....

Boy there sure are allot of big claims out there by companies....But it looks like stock is just as good.....

Interesting.........very interesting

very good info kinda what i was thinkin! but i never had the time to do that!!! thanks!

today i was doing nothing at work, so we pulled out the OBD II and hooked it up, we gatherd the pcm info and had it displayed, at idle my Intake temp was about 43C (idling in a garage) we reved it up to about 3500 and held it there the intake temp went down to 41C (still idling just reving up)

So as the air sits in the intake it gets hot once you open up the tb and get the air moving, it speeds it up and cools it down, it doesnt have time to get hot..

I predict if i was moving (going about 65-70) with my CAI and Ram air hood, i have cold air being pushed ontop og the filter coming though my hood scoops, and i have air being rushed from the stock area.. as long as you keep the hot air from standing still it is cold air.. one day ill have to take the OBD II out for a spin with my truck and see if i can get some temps will moving. That would be pretty cool.

I believe the stock filter size is adequate when clean and no other mods. I like the fact that it takes air from outside the engine so as reported earlier, when its 75 outside and 200 under the hood you can access the cooler air. It seems to be agreed that what ever the temp of the air at the pickup point will remain fairly constant when traveling through the tube. I modified mine with just a larger opening to the airbox from outside, a higher flowing filter(plan for ugrades) and a smoother intake tube(airaid jr). It is only louder under WOT otherwise its nice and quiet. I did notice better throttle responce but without other mods don't expect much in mpg bonus. heres a photo, I know its a gen three but will work the same on gen two.

local://upfiles/57176/612707645E194222A00D9B702D04A0D0.jpg

That looks like a really good system you have there.

I like the fact that you got rid of the stock resonator box. How much did that set up cost you? Doesn't seem to be too expensive.

HEY LOOK a COLD air intake!!!

I have a stupid question. Maybe more of an observation. In the winter don't we all have cold air intakes?

My set up cost around $140 total. $129 for the Airaid Jr setup(upper inlet tube and a higher flow filter), about $15 for a 4" 90 degree elbow and two 4" rubber couplers. I cut a larger hole in the lower airbox(about 4.75) to fit a coupler and the pipe and also opened up the fender whole to the same size. I cut off the ends of the elbow so they would slip into the couplers. I posted these under the gen three site but here ya go...

local://upfiles/57176/17630DE049F24327AA46E7B2DEBF6B12.jpg

local://upfiles/57176/8E86BD8742934C5C95BF64618FB82811.jpg

local://upfiles/57176/7FCFEDE9DC7142C89BCE0D4888E41302.jpg

oh yeh i added a screen on the outside...the factory setup does not have this.
Here is a picture too of the old inlet pipe for comparison

local://upfiles/57176/85E1EFFF2E084815924957459F653673.jpg

local://upfiles/57176/B70D145E373F4E63882909E1117DA681.jpg

so there isnt a filter at all? or is the stock replaced with a k & n

the stock filter is replaced withan airaid filter(comes as a kit with the tube for 129). I think K & N also makes an upper tube and a drop in filter for those that want to use K&N.

I didn't take any photos of the new filter as I did the lower box and fender work before I got the Airaid Jr kit. Its a nice filter though.

ORIGINAL: User2006

today i was doing nothing at work, so we pulled out the OBD II and hooked it up, we gatherd the pcm info and had it displayed, at idle my Intake temp was about 43C (idling in a garage) we reved it up to about 3500 and held it there the intake temp went down to 41C (still idling just reving up)

So as the air sits in the intake it gets hot once you open up the tb and get the air moving, it speeds it up and cools it down, it doesnt have time to get hot..

I predict if i was moving (going about 65-70) with my CAI and Ram air hood, i have cold air being pushed ontop og the filter coming though my hood scoops, and i have air being rushed from the stock area.. as long as you keep the hot air from standing still it is cold air.. one day ill have to take the OBD II out for a spin with my truck and see if i can get some temps will moving. That would be pretty cool.


I'm a bit lost here, a functional ram air hood seals the hood scoop to the intake tract, yet you've got a CAI not designed for the ram air? Got any pics of the setup?

I would think that you could only have one or the other. Would'nt that be a lot of plumbing under the hood?

ORIGINAL: horatio102

ORIGINAL: User2006

today i was doing nothing at work, so we pulled out the OBD II and hooked it up, we gatherd the pcm info and had it displayed, at idle my Intake temp was about 43C (idling in a garage) we reved it up to about 3500 and held it there the intake temp went down to 41C (still idling just reving up)

So as the air sits in the intake it gets hot once you open up the tb and get the air moving, it speeds it up and cools it down, it doesnt have time to get hot..

I predict if i was moving (going about 65-70) with my CAI and Ram air hood, i have cold air being pushed ontop og the filter coming though my hood scoops, and i have air being rushed from the stock area.. as long as you keep the hot air from standing still it is cold air.. one day ill have to take the OBD II out for a spin with my truck and see if i can get some temps will moving. That would be pretty cool.


I'm a bit lost here, a functional ram air hood seals the hood scoop to the intake tract, yet you've got a CAI not designed for the ram air? Got any pics of the setup?


Before i got the CAI, i had factory tubing and air box, with an albow from the air box going to a hole in a hood (ram air). I took out the Factory air box and tubing, and added a Bruteforce AEM CAI, the filter fits perfect in the spot where my hood hole is cut, at high speeds air is rushed into the area of the CAI filter, i have a heat shield around it with weather striping for a sealed box. I have air coming from the fender by the light and from my hood.

I have pics they should be posted in my gallery. If not ill post some up.

also i say functional hood becuase my hood actually has an opening for the air to flow through. A lot of people think my hood is just for looks.. but its not it actually works.

OK, I know I am going to be in the minority here, but based on the various setups I have tried on my D as well as previously on my Ram I am now convinced that the stock set up (at least on the 4.7) with a good flowing filter is the best way to go. It draws air in from a cold source and flows plenty of air to feed the engine. My Fastman actually works better now with the stock intake back on rather than with an Air Raid type set up (which is similar to the True Flow intake system that so many people are buying now). The K and N type intakes and the cheapy Ebay ones draw in more warm air than the stock set up and are prone to heat soak. I know there will be plenty of you who will swear up and down that your aftermarket "CAI" made a dramatic improvement, but I am saying that based on my own experience that the stock set up works just fine for normally aspirated/mildly modified engines. I have discussed this with a couple of mechanics (with a combined 50 plus years of experience) and they have told me basically the same thing. I believe there are some tests out there showing little to no gain from aftermarket CAI's compared to the stock intake. Just my 2 cents

Maybe one in one hundred CAI buyers actually test how well the truck accelerates before and after they have spent the several hundred $.

Only one in one thousand actually tests how well the CAI does
in an accurate way,
although the MegaSquirt guys have made it easy to test for
horsepower and torque gains out on 'real world' roads with your
vehicle at very low cost:

http://www.bgsoflex.com/dyno.html

I dont bother with the CAI, i just throw a K@N air flilter on it and call it good. Not worth the money.

All I have is a K&N air filter. I think that's all I'm gonna do. I would like to get rid of the stock resonator box. That way I'd just have a tube running right into the TB.

ORIGINAL: jalapeenoz

OK, I know I am going to be in the minority here, but based on the various setups I have tried on my D as well as previously on my Ram I am now convinced that the stock set up (at least on the 4.7) with a good flowing filter is the best way to go. It draws air in from a cold source and flows plenty of air to feed the engine. My Fastman actually works better now with the stock intake back on rather than with an Air Raid type set up (which is similar to the True Flow intake system that so many people are buying now). The K and N type intakes and the cheapy Ebay ones draw in more warm air than the stock set up and are prone to heat soak. I know there will be plenty of you who will swear up and down that your aftermarket "CAI" made a dramatic improvement, but I am saying that based on my own experience that the stock set up works just fine for normally aspirated/mildly modified engines. I have discussed this with a couple of mechanics (with a combined 50 plus years of experience) and they have told me basically the same thing. I believe there are some tests out there showing little to no gain from aftermarket CAI's compared to the stock intake. Just my 2 cents


You got anything to back that up? What is a "K and N" type intake?

I think he means a K&N CAI

Yes I meant K and N CAI ( and similar intakes that have a tube and an open filter hanging over the engine compartment). As I said this is my own experience that I have had on a couple of different vehicles. Not only did I not notice an improvement with aftermarket set ups, in some cases I actually felt a decrease in performance. I believe Hank has some links to some actual dyno tests that prove the same thing. IMHO you could put the couple hundred bucks toward something else that would give you more significant gains.

its in ur head...

kinda like go fast stickers and loud mufflers...its all in ur head

Try and put it into perspective. Let's say that a CAI gives you 3 extra HP. Is it really going to make that much of a difference on a truck that weighs 6000 lbs. If you do the math 3hp/6000lbs = .0005hp more per pound. I know that every little bit helps but to actually feel the difference?

You do know that the current FIPK has the filter isolated by a barrier, right? It's not just a short ram filter. Besides, intake, headers, muffler, high flow cat, larger/better throttle body, larger injectors - none of those alone will net you a noticable gain, but they all work together as a system to build off eachother. And yeah, improper design can cause a loss of power - dumping the exhaust right at the headers would be a great example. Chuck it on the dyno and you'll see peak HP gains, but look at the curve and you'll note that it's less efficient at low RPM operation due to the decrease in exhaust gas scavenging.

So yeah, there are other things you could spend your money on that may have greater gains, such as 1.7 roller rockers, but improving any of the components is never a bad idea. Just keep in mind what the improvement is and make sure it makes sense for your application and goals.

ORIGINAL: jalapeenoz

Yes I meant K and N CAI ( and similar intakes that have a tube and an open filter hanging over the engine compartment). As I said this is my own experience that I have had on a couple of different vehicles. Not only did I not notice an improvement with aftermarket set ups, in some cases I actually felt a decrease in performance. I believe Hank has some links to some actual dyno tests that prove the same thing. IMHO you could put the couple hundred bucks toward something else that would give you more significant gains.

so what ur saying is change ur exhaust, you cant tell me that the stock air box doesnt have good airflow...or enough...we arnt running diesels here