92 Dakota Starting Problems
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92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 11:46:21 AM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline
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Hey guys,
I'm new here, have a '92 Dakota Sport w/ 3.9L V6.
The problem I'm having is this. When I go to start the truck, it will not even begin to start. It will crank, crank crank..... and the whole time I hold the key down, the volt meter, oil pressure, etc will start to rise very slowly.
After cranking the truck a good ten seconds or more.... and turning the key back (but not off) a "ticking" sound will start. It starts off very rapid, and the Check Engine light will stay solid. For about 10-15 seconds the ticking will continue, getting slower and slower until it stops. The Check Engine light flashes in accordance with these ticks. As soon as the ticking stops, the truck will immediately start, then stall out once, then start right back up and run fine.
What the heck is going on? I get a little tired of cranking the truck forever waiting on the ticking to start.
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 2:45:25 PM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2699
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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As far as the check engine light, go HERE to find out how to check the codes. (When you post back, I don't really care if you post the code discription, but please please please, post the actual code #)
I have no idea what it might be (I can take guesses, but I won't). Pull the codes and post back.
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 3:18:26 PM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
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I get no codes but a:
#12 - Battery Disconnect
#55 - End of codes
So really, I have NO idea what this is!!!
All I know is that the sound (ticking) appears to be coming from the right rear side of the engine compartment (when facing the engine w/ hood up).
As soon as the "ticking" stops, there is some kind of whine that sounds like a pump starting, it lasts about 2 seconds, then the truck fires, stalls, fires again and stays running.
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 3:24:35 PM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2699
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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quote:
it lasts about 2 seconds, then the truck fires, stalls, fires again and stays running.
All on its own??
I know the starter is located on the driver-side rear of the engine. (Here are some pics from my starter-removal)
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 4:39:42 PM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline
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I guess I should have clarified...
No, it doesn't start on its own, I have to turn the key. But all that happens every time the truck is cold.
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 9:21:32 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
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The ticking could be one of your relays. If I had to guess, I'd say one of them is going bad. The coil (not ignition coil, but the coil inside the relay) is having a hard time keeping the contact closed and maintaining the circut. I have seen this before when they get worn out.
The first thing I would do if I were you would be to replace the auto shutdown relay and the relay to the fuel pump. Possibly it could be a corroded socket or a broken wire underneath the distribution center where all the relays are. It should be located about where you describe where the "ticking" noise is coming from. You could always try swapping the a/c relay in place of the fuel pump relay and then the asd relay for vise versa and see if anything changes. Its always worth a shot.
The "whine" you are hearing would prolly be your fuel pump kicking in.
Hope this helps. This is just what I think it may be from what you described.
_____________________________
My wife says my truck reminds her of the Black Pearl. It's black, cursed, and sometimes an eerie fog follows it. Nice.........
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 9:25:46 PM
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gb6491
Posts: 98
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline
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The clicking might be a bad relay or problem with the notoriuos wiring harness splice. The whirring sound could be the fuel pump.
Here is some info on checking the ASD relay and splice: (All quoted from this thread: http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_501139/tm.htm )
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sneezer
Check for spark first. That will help nail things down. There is an ASD relay that can cause the same symptoms if it fails. Same thing happened to my 92 earlier this year. It is the same relay as tha A/C clutch so you can swap them as well to help troubleshoot.
You could have a bad coil or a burned out cap/rotor. I had a burned out cap/rotor on my car last year that also had the exact same symptoms.
There is also a splice on the wiring harness underneath the PDC you were looking in earlier. It is a common problem on these trucks - the splice can go bad which prevents it from starting as well.
If you have spark then the ASD relay is working fine. You might have a bad fuel pump, severely clogged fuel filter or fouled plugs.
If you have no spark then my guess is ASD relay or the splice as those are the most common problems.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dodgerules86
^^ What he said.
I have heard as well the splice (that feeds the automatic shutdown relay [ASD] and fuel pump) sometimes goes bad.
To make sure the relays are getting juice, you can test the battery input to them. (Picture)
When you turn the key to the "ON" (but not start) position, you can usually hear the fuel pump kick on (but only for a second or two just to pressurise the system). If you hear this, clearly the pump is getting juice, so the relay, battery feed, and all connected wiring is working.
Test for spark. If its not getting spark, but the fuel pump is getting juice, switch the relays. If it gets spark than (and you don't hear the fuel pump kick on) the relay was bad.
Post back with the results.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1stdakota
THANKS A LOT! The problem was the splice under the fuse/relay box. I started to peel and cut the tape away from the bundle of wires and notice a greenish powder. There they were four wires barely touching. Stripped them, soddered them and taped it all up.  Total cost NOTHING. I sure hope that I can help someone else like you all helped me. Money's tight, so God bless.
Regards,
Greg
Oops, I see erock92kota has suggested all this as I was putting my reply together!
< Message edited by gb6491 -- 8/29/2006 9:32:02 PM >
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 9:39:04 PM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2699
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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^^ What those two said. Try that, and post back with results.
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 8/29/2006 10:00:00 PM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline
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Will do guys! Thanks!!!
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 10/3/2006 10:14:52 AM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
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Ok guys. I know it's been a while, but time and money have been tight.
We checked the wires/splices under the relay box. All appear to be fine. No fraying, no powder, etc.
I tried swapping the ASD relay with the Fuel Pump Relay... no change.
Today, I installed a new Fuel Pump Relay from Mopar. No change. I tried to swap it (new fuel pump relay) with the ASD relay. No change.
As crazy as this sounds, the WEATHER is making the difference on how long it takes for the truck to start. The warmer it is, the sooner the truck will start the "clicking" and will fire.
While I was checking the relays, the truck started the "clicking" so I quickly felt the tops of all the relays, and the clicking APPEARS to be coming from the brand new Fuel Pump Relay. It feels like someone is on the other side of the relay tapping it with something. It's crazy.
Also, I have recently found out that I DO NOT have to crank and crank the truck to get it to start. My typical day now is to go out to the truck about ten-fifteen minutes before I want to leave for work, put the key in the ignition, and turn it to one push shy of cranking. This appears to work fine.... because when I go out to the truck to leave (ten minutes later) it fires up on the first try with no problems.
What else could it be? I don't claim to know a whole heckuva lot about vehicles, but it appears to me that the problem lies in something that happens BEFORE start up. Such as fuel pump sending fuel, etc. In my opinion, I don't seem to have any problem getting spark, because the truck will fire up right away once I leave the key in the "ON" position for a few minutes.
Thanks for any help guys!!
< Message edited by slancer_71 -- 10/3/2006 10:16:35 AM >
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 10/4/2006 1:45:17 AM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2699
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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Ok, get your hands on a multimeter. You want one that can measure resistance (ohms - the symbol for this is a horseshoe looking thing: Ω). If you don't have one, they can be gotten for pretty decent prices, like, $20 or less.
Disconnect your battery positive and negative cables.
Now, go to your ASD and fuel pump relays, and remove them. There are four main items to the relay: the switched input (from the ignition switch), the ground (provided from the PCM or computer), the output, and the battery feed. The bottom of the relay will usually have numbers printed on it, next to its particular "blade". The numbers, and use, are as follows: 30 battery feed; 85 ground [from PCM]; 86 from ignition; 87 output; 87A [don't worry about].
ASD Relay
Find the cavity that corrilates to 30 (battery feed). Do a resistance test between that point and the positive battery cable (remember, with battery disconnected!!). Record results.
Now, turn the key to the ON position (like the engine is running). Now check resistance from cavity 86 (from ignition) to the battery positive cable. Record results.
Now, turn the key back off. Check resistance from cavity 87 (output) to the ignition coil connector. This is a 2-wire connector. If one wire doesn't work, try another. Record results.
Now, disconnect the connector from your computer (passenger side inner fender). Test resistance from cavity 85 to pin 51 of the computer. Record results.
Fuel Pump relay:
The same steps apply, but the only differance is: the only output (cavity 87) of the fuel pump relay is to the fuel pump, so, I won't tell you to do that.
Check resistance between battery positive cable and computer pin 3. This is the direct battery feed.
With the key ON, check resistance between computer pin 9 and the battery positive cable. (this tells the computer the key is ON)
Now, reconnect any connectors you may have disconnected. Double check. Make sure they key is OFF. Now reconnect the battery, and post the resistance you found in each circuit.
It might sound funny that I'm asking you to do this, but just do it.
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 Dakota Starting Problems - 10/4/2006 10:07:03 AM
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slancer_71
Posts: 11
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline
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sounds like a plan. I'll check around and see if any of my local buddies have a multimeter.
I'm in the indianapolis area if any of you guys are local!
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