RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP!
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/18/2006 10:20:57 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
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Truck still no workie workie.......I am about ready to call chrysler and have one of their engineers come look at this thing....I am getting a lil preturbed. Well on the way now is a new distributor. Lets see what this does...........
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/18/2006 11:24:18 PM
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BStumm
Posts: 45
Joined: 7/16/2006
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You mentioned a mechanic talkin bout the auto shutdown circuit. Right?
I also have a 92 dakota, its a 5.2 but I'm sure the relays are the same. My 92 had a problem with stalling but not with backfiring at that time. It does currently but thats another story. ARG!
Anyway have you tried replacing the auto shutdown relay? You can test it real easy. Under your hood on driver side fender wall is a black box. Remove cover and you see black cubes. Flip lid over to get location of various relays. Take the relay from the ASD or Auto shutdown spot and move it to the starter relay spot. Put the starter relay in the ASD spot. Attempt to start your truck, if starter no work your ASD Relay went bad. New is approx $12 at NAPA or the like. If truck does turn over repeat test with Fuel pump relay.
The other cause of this is a bad engine controller (computer). Are you getting strange code 12's even though you've not disconnected your battery in over 50 starts? The next prob I had after a bad ASD relay was a PCM (engine computer) that had an intermittent short which caused the truck to not start (or die if it was running, idle or on freeway dont matter). When the truck wont start you will note that immediate after turning key to on (not start) the check engine light doesn't come on for its normal 4 seconds indicating the bulb aint burnt out. Until the check engine light returns on turning key to "ON" your truck wont start. When it DOES come back it will fire right up. This is a sign of a faulty PCM (Engine Controller, ECU, ECM whatever you want to call it parts store will know what you mean if you say engine computer).
I currently do have a backfire prob on mine. My engine computer went bad and so far I've had two remanufactured replacements in it and both make the truck backfire. No idea now if its a (second) bad reman computer or if something else got knocked out by my old computer. The truck ran fine on Friday but has backfired ever since I replaced original computer on Saturday morning. The old computer had the intermittent loss of power (code 12) problem. I actually think the original problem stems from the corroded solder joints in the wireharness along the firewall (three of them, blue, red (with stripes white or orange) and a black/gray group. 4 wires in each of the three clusters). The solder joints corrode and cuase a short. I think I let my problem go to long (didn't know what problem was for a while) and it knocked out the computer.
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 9:18:40 AM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2704
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
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quote:
"I actually think the original problem stems from the corroded solder joints in the wireharness along the firewall "
I agree. However, I think I already asked him (erock92kota) if he checked all the wiring, and he said yes (I believe it was in another thread). But that is correct, they did have problems with corrosion on a few splices they did at the factory. (Typically, the splice that send power to the fuel pump relay and automatic shutdown relay). It would probably not hurt to take another look at all the wiring, and fix anything that looks remotely suspecious. I would recommend getting a voltmeter with a continuity tester. Test for things such as voltage drop (on powered wires) and continuity (on non powered wires).
Also make sure you test all grounds. Diconnect all the ground wires and clean the spots up (no dirt or corrosion, just clean metal on metal).
< Message edited by dodgerules86 -- 7/19/2006 9:19:22 AM >
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 5:05:00 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
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Yeah I also posted the 92 with 94 engine thread. I have replaced everything just about right down to every relay under the hood. I had the wire looms all apart and spent the better part of a sunday with a multi meter tracing wires, checking for shorts, broken wires, etc......I did find a few shady connections and some bad grounds but I fixed them...even the green corroded blob under the relay/breaker panel under the hood where the asd and all that jazz is located......the problem still persists.
So far I have replaced:
any relays I found
computer
air charge temp sensor
map sensor
coolant temp sensor
throttle position sensor
crank sensor
cap
rotor
hall effect sensor=distributor pickup
plug wires
plugs
pulled intake and gave it a thorough cleaning
made sure vacuum ports in intake were all free and clear
new intake gaskets
new o-rings on injectors and cleaned the injectors while they were out
modified fuel rail mounts so injectors were seated correctly
fuel filter
fuel lines
all vacuum hoses
checked and rechecked and rechecked vacuum plumbing
I have set the #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke and made sure distributor lines up (there are marks on the pickup to align with #1)
cleaned throttle body and made sure that all vacuum ports were clear
checked fuel pressure...holds at like 30ish when idling and a lil higher when I give it gas when its running for the minute it runs but it never dropped below 29psi
There are other things but I can't remember....I have done everytihng and a bit more then I can think of aside from replacing the actual distributor and pulling the front of the engine apart to check the timing there.
It will run like a champ for about a minute or so with some throttle hesitation....then it picks up a miss....then it starts to stumble and surge....then all of a sudden it either shuts down or if I try to save it, everytime I hit the gas it will die out and when I let off it tries to recover but normally results in backfiring either out the exhaust or out the throttle body. I have an open element air cleaner on it and I can hear the air getting sucked in thru the idle control like its trying to cut the air off to the engine. Like the valve is closing and allowing a smaller amount of air by. I havent replaced this part yet...but it is on my to do list in the near future. I would think that if the idle control was going bad I could still rev the engine and keep it running like I have done on other cars when they have gone bad.
< Message edited by erock92kota -- 7/19/2006 5:12:01 PM >
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 5:23:04 PM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2704
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: erock92kota
I have an open element air cleaner on it and I can hear the air getting sucked in thru the idle control like its trying to cut the air off to the engine. Like the valve is closing and allowing a smaller amount of air by. I havent replaced this part yet...but it is on my to do list in the near future. I would think that if the idle control was going bad I could still rev the engine and keep it running like I have done on other cars when they have gone bad.
I never thought about that. Didn't you say that it would die if you drove it anyways? Or was it, as you were stopping it would die? (Or was that someone else?)
The idle air control (IAC) motor is controlled by the computer. There is a pintle on it, that moves in and out of the passage on the throttle body to let more or less air in. When they key is turned to the ON position, the PCM moves the pintle into position. Of course, "like I have done on other cars when they have gone bad. " << of course, you know how they work, I didn't need to type that  
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 6:49:50 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
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It dies no matter what I do whether its try to drive it or let it sit and idle. Mostly all I have done with it lately is let it sit and idle. I have tried to move it but that normally results in me getting it where I wanted by keeping the starter turning and moving it that way. Not good I know...but sometimes where it sits, it is in the way. But normally when I give it the gas pedal or work the throttle linkage, it seems to like smother itself out, when I release the throttle it tries to recover but typically just starts to spit and sputter and eventually die. Once in awhile it will recover, but not always. It is indeed undrivable by any means. Since it won't even run long enough to get it out of my driveway. I can hear like this high pitched hissing noise when it is trying recover which upon closer inspection I found to be the iac moving into the throttle body allowing less air through making said noise.
I have also been thinking about replacing the speed sensor....just for the hell of it...I have replaced almost everything else...might as well make them all new.
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 7:02:56 PM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2704
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: erock92kota
I have also been thinking about replacing the speed sensor....just for the hell of it...I have replaced almost everything else...might as well make them all new.
Hahaha... when I started reading the sentence, I was like "Why would de do that?" but than I got to, "just for the hell of it...I have replaced almost everything else...might as well make them all new."
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/19/2006 8:32:22 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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Well I was out in the pool staring at the truck yet again. My lil girl walks up to it and pats its door and makes noises at it and gives it a kiss (shes gonna be two this weekend). She always loved to go for rides in the truck. I wish it would run for more then my own reasons.
So I got out of the pool and went into the garage and started performing inventory on parts I have left over from other projects. Mainly my turbo dodge days. I have sitting in my garage a 2.2l turbo engine that I have rebuilt. Everything is new. Stock but new. I also have a t-II setup but I would have to get creative with intercooler placement. I have a computer there but I need to check what all is needed as far as a harness goes. I think some things in the truck are the same. I have a shelby 2 piece intake manifold and the throttle body to go on it. A header with a turbo still bolted on. And some assorted other parts n pieces. I am thinking that if I do not get this 3.9l running soon, I am going to make a swap. I had thought about it before but never too seriously, and I brushed it off like oh it runs fine now why mess with it. But with its current record of almost two months not on the road.....its begining to bother me. It came with a 4 banger it might as well have one again. But one with a lil more oooomph.
If I rip this 3.9 out I will be more then happy to sell it.......I dont think anything internal is wrong with it. But it is making me angry at times and sometimes I actually loose sleep over it.
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/20/2006 4:36:16 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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Well last night I woke up in the middle of the night and had a hunch to go try n turn the old truck over. When I flipped the key to the on position right before I hit start I listened to the fuel pump......
It made this odd noise I have never heard a fuel pump make before. So this weekend I am dropping the tank. Neither mechanic I had look at said it may be the fuel pump....actually they both told me its not. But I know that they shouldnt sound like the noise I heard last night. I will let yas know how I make out.
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/21/2006 12:32:49 AM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2704
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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When you replace the fuel pump, that would be a great time to make sure all the gas lines are in good condition as well.
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/21/2006 7:49:19 PM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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I replaced all of them except for the ones I couldn't get too that easily above the fuel tank. I will replace them too. while I have the bed off. Also I am gonna swap the shocks while I have a clear shot at the bolts in the cross member there on the frame. They are kind of a bugger to get at with the bed on.
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/22/2006 11:23:39 AM
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erock92kota
Posts: 200
Joined: 5/20/2006
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Well I have the bed off the truck. The pump is fine. It was just getting low on gas. Took gas cans and filled the tank about half way this morning. Still does it. But.......I made a more accurate fuel pressure guage (I was using an old h.v.a.c. guage set that isnt very accurate but I thought would give me a ballpark number) with parts I scarfed up before I left work yesterday.
When the truck starts to act up, the fuel pressure goes up above 40. The book says after I read the right section that it should be between 36 to 45 psi. So I guess that its in order.
< Message edited by erock92kota -- 7/22/2006 11:50:18 AM >
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RE: 92 stalling and rough idle HELP! - 7/22/2006 11:48:25 AM
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dodgerules86
Posts: 2704
Joined: 12/25/2003
From: Sycamore, Illinois (displaced to Arkansas)
Status: offline
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Go to Napaonline.com, and use Napa P/N 219657. It came up for a 1992 Dakota. $50.
Fuel pressure regulator should be in tank, at least it is in my truck. (Of course, on my truck, the pressure regulator is integrated with the fuel pump, and cannot be replaced seperatly, a nic $300 unit Hope mine doesn't go out!)
BTW, in my manual, it says the pressure regulator output should be 49.2 +/- 5 PSI.
quote:
The o2 sensor is giving out like a .9 volts which I believe means that its rich.....way rich
Wow. That's correct, and nice 'n rich!
Hope you can find the cause of this headache.
_____________________________
Current ride: Belleville 220 DES ST - leather, reinforced front end, tan color. Runs on ''alternative fuel'' :)
1996 Dodge Dakota
1986 Honda Civic CRX
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