RE: Viper rumor...
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/8/2006 4:34:01 PM
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97 3.5 Intrepid
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The advantage the Z06 has against the Viper is so slight, that if they changed the rear axle ratio from 3.07 to 3.42 like the Z06 has, they would probably be able to make up the difference. The V10 has so much untapped potiental. It only has a 9.6 to 1 compression ratio vs. the Z06 has around a 11.0 or 11.1 to 1 compression ratio. The V10 could even have more modern technology such as VVT to improve its hp & tq. I don't know why people insist on comparing the two. They are too different. The Corvette is a heritage muscle car vs. the Viper is a supercar. The Viper's styling is exciting vs. the Z06 is not in my opinion. I'd rather have the GTO than any Vette even if the Vette is faster than the GTO. It looks the same as it has since the 80s, and those models were more exciting despite the fact that they are slower than the current version.
Oh and as far as the Bluedevil model is concerned. That 7.0L is already pretty much maxed out. I'd bet that it would blow the engine apart. If 600 hp is the best they can do with the 7.0L then that is sad. Hennesey is able to get around 1000hp out of the V10 Viper. The Corvette is a symbol of what is wrong with GM. They put everything into one, boring division, which will give them only one marketing strategy. All the money they are putting into the Corvette should be used to get some newer, better engines for the other divisions, add more attractive vehicles to the Buick and Pontiac divisions that people actually want, and not getting into a contest to try and get ahead of the Viper.
< Message edited by 97 3.5 Intrepid -- 3/8/2006 4:43:03 PM >
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/8/2006 4:57:12 PM
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DevilsReject
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 97 3.5 Intrepid
Oh and as far as the Bluedevil model is concerned. That 7.0L is already pretty much maxed out. I'd bet that it would blow the engine apart. If 600 hp is the best they can do with the 7.0L then that is sad. Hennesey is able to get around 1000hp out of the V10 Viper.
That my friend, is the most idiotic and stupid comment you have made so far. You want facts? The Saleen S7 is America's fastest produced supercar....guess what....it's a 750hp V8. The Z06 is only 500hp and its the ONLY 500hp car that has ever not gotten the gas guzzler tax. Also, you should seriously go look at the Sledgehammer and Lingenfelter Corvette's....700+RWHP.....not to mention there are a few street legal Vette's putting down 1000hp. And that's not even bringing out the C6 racing version of the Corvette.....
The V8 motor isnt maxxed out. Is it hitting the end of its performance capabilities....I say no. Does it compare to the V10 in upside? Of course not. The V10 has much much more potential.
But, alas.....I'm tired of hearing about potential....I'm tired of hearing about what ifs.......The Viper isnt good enough for the price you pay for it.....especially when you can get a car some 20 grand cheaper that does the same thing. I would love to see the Viper return to what it was, and I would be the first to congratulate Dodge on it if it happens.
FYI, half of the fastest built cars are V8's. Not a couple.....HALF.....SC'd and Turbo'd.....they are still that good....
EDIT: HP means nothing if you cant get the car down the track......fix the gearing ratio and then worry about HP.....something Dodge hasnt apparently been able to figure out in what??? 10 years?
< Message edited by DevilsReject -- 3/8/2006 5:00:58 PM >
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/8/2006 5:48:54 PM
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97 3.5 Intrepid
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My point was they don't have much room when it comes to making upgrades that will not cause possible reliability issues. 11.0 to 1 is a very high compression ratio. Any further upgrades could seriously cause reliability issues, and the last thing they need to do is make a car that is going to have reliability issues. It would do further damage to their already tarnished image.
I'm getting tired of hearing about the two being compared. The Viper is a budget competitor of Ferraris and other supercars. Comparing the Corvette and the Viper is like comparing the SRT-4 to the 2004 Mustang GT. The SRT-4 in some tests was faster and cost less, just like the Corvette Z06. The Viper is due for an update, cut it some slack already. Now ask yourself something. Is the budgeting that Chrysler done wiser than what GM has done. Yes the Viper has been cut short for quite a while, but they have used the money on making different vehicles to where they aren't in trouble like GM is.
Yeah their are more V8s that are in the fastest sports cars in the world, and why, because there are more V8s out there than V10s or V12s. These two cars just don't match up and will never match up. As long as the Viper has a V10, it will be more expensive. There is more similarity between the Mustang and Corvette than they will ever be better the Viper and Corvette. It doesn't take much money to upgrade a Mustang to beat a Corvette. It can be done with less than it costs to buy a Corvette. No matter how you cut it there will always be a car that can out preform another car for less money. Get over it.
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/8/2006 6:32:13 PM
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DevilsReject
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 97 3.5 Intrepid
My point was they don't have much room when it comes to making upgrades that will not cause possible reliability issues. 11.0 to 1 is a very high compression ratio. Any further upgrades could seriously cause reliability issues, and the last thing they need to do is make a car that is going to have reliability issues. It would do further damage to their already tarnished image.
I'm getting tired of hearing about the two being compared. The Viper is a budget competitor of Ferraris and other supercars. Comparing the Corvette and the Viper is like comparing the SRT-4 to the 2004 Mustang GT. The SRT-4 in some tests was faster and cost less, just like the Corvette Z06. The Viper is due for an update, cut it some slack already. Now ask yourself something. Is the budgeting that Chrysler done wiser than what GM has done. Yes the Viper has been cut short for quite a while, but they have used the money on making different vehicles to where they aren't in trouble like GM is.
Yeah their are more V8s that are in the fastest sports cars in the world, and why, because there are more V8s out there than V10s or V12s. These two cars just don't match up and will never match up. As long as the Viper has a V10, it will be more expensive. There is more similarity between the Mustang and Corvette than they will ever be better the Viper and Corvette. It doesn't take much money to upgrade a Mustang to beat a Corvette. It can be done with less than it costs to buy a Corvette. No matter how you cut it there will always be a car that can out preform another car for less money. Get over it.
Actually, most of the cars that even get a V10/V12 are so limited in number and so insane in price that most people simply pass on them or simply cant afford them to begin with. Having a V10 doesnt make you faster/better then having a V8. The very original McLaren F1 was actually a V8. The compression ratio on the Corvette is indeed high, but its been that way for a long time....and quite honestly....it's stable. I will grant you that the V8 has a "cap", but I disagree that having the V10 is "better".
As for the comparison of the two cars....the Viper was built to challenge the Corvette.....not Ferrari...and quite honestly...it won for a good while....and now the Corvette came back and is winning. The Viper is listed as a supercar only because its a V10....no other reason. Performance vs. Performance they're even, looks goes to the Viper, comfort goes to the Vette. If you want to talk supercars, talk Saleen S7 and the Ford GT (which is fugly and I hate it)....both of which....beat the Viper.....and cost twice as much.....and....are you ready for this.....both had V8 engines...
It takes ALOT of money to make a Mustang beat a Z06.....the base Corvette is easy to beat with a modded car.
As far as GM being in trouble, they're the largest automaker in the world. At some point, they were going to have to kill off and cut back like Dodge/Chrysler did with the whole DCX merger back in like 99-2000. They've started, but they are alot bigger then Dodge/Chrysler ever were.....and thats hard to do. I would buy maybe 4 GM products period.... but I used to never think I'd ever buy a Dodge outside of a truck.....companies can change.....and Chrysler/Dodge suffered for a while too...
As for upgrades....who the hell cares......all upgrades CAN and WILL cause potential problems on ANY CAR....but you obviously dont think people like Hennessey and Lingenfelter and Saleen dont think about these things? There's a reason they can produce this kind of power out of these cars. The fastest NA Viper in the world is built by Lingenfelter......the same guy who built the world's fastest street legal Corvette.......
One last thing, for all the V10 is better comments I see.....do some research.....virtually every supercar and exotic seem to have a horsepower cap around the 450-612hp mark. They dont really exceed that, and those that do....well....they cost entirely too much to even consider in this conversation. I'm sure everyone of those automakers are going.....yeah...we need to look at the potential of this engine instead of actually making it perform. Half of those cars producing the 450-612hp mark are V8's. Whether they are V8 or V10 or V12, I'd say a good percentage are turboed or supercharged on top of that.
< Message edited by DevilsReject -- 3/8/2006 6:44:22 PM >
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/8/2006 7:33:29 PM
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MG42pillbox
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Correct, the V10 is not better. Its an opinionated method of an engine design. Its is simply another configuration period. However it is a significantly less common of an engine configuration. Especially in America, There for making it a domestic-EXOTIC
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 12:02:04 AM
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Midnight
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DevilsReject
The Viper isnt good enough for the price you pay for it.....especially when you can get a car some 20 grand cheaper that does the same thing. I would love to see the Viper return to what it was, and I would be the first to congratulate Dodge on it if it happens.
Correction... The Viper is a GREAT deal, the Corvette Z06 is just a better deal... There lots of other V8, V10 cars that are twice as much but don't equal the performance.
Atleast the Viper (at only 10k more than the Z06) brings you good looks...
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 7:52:19 AM
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DevilsReject
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MidnightBlueNeon
Atleast the Viper (at only 10k more than the Z06) brings you good looks...
2006 Z06 Corvette Coupe MSRP - $65,690 http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
2006 SRT-10 Viper Roadster - $85,745 http://www.dodge.com/viper
2006 SRT-10 Viper Coupe MSRP - $86,995
Only 10k? I must have failed Algebra 2 then....
< Message edited by DevilsReject -- 3/10/2006 7:54:09 AM >
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 8:48:49 AM
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ViperGTS
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I think he's talking about them being a year or so old when price drops
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 9:02:49 AM
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DevilsReject
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ViperGTS
I think he's talking about them being a year or so old when price drops
Corvette's depreciate faster then a Viper....so how would the price ever really be that close? Least, I had always been told that.
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 9:19:34 AM
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vipersforsale
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DevilsReject
2006 Z06 Corvette Coupe MSRP - $65,690 http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
Only 10k? I must have failed Algebra 2 then....
well maybe you did, because not only was the sticker on the Z06 I sold 2 weeks ago $68,500(no nav or anything special)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4613099325&category=6168
But it sold for $75,000 so yeh that would make it $10,000 difference at this point...
and the gentleman that purchased it has a Lambo, a Porsche and a couple of other exotics and is basically a casual buyer of first-outs who will probly drive it a few times and then turn around and sell it at a small loss(to him) to buy whatever is next out. $10K is a moot point(to him). So RIGHT NOW a Viper is a good deal vs. a Z06 all things considered.
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 9:21:50 AM
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ViperGTS
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quote:
Corvette's depreciate faster then a Viper....so how would the price ever really be that close? Least, I had always been told that.
02/03 Viper sitting on the lot compared to a new Vette. They're about the same price with a possible 10k offset.
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RE: Viper rumor... - 3/10/2006 9:49:27 AM
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DevilsReject
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vipersforsale
quote:
ORIGINAL: DevilsReject
2006 Z06 Corvette Coupe MSRP - $65,690 http://www.chevrolet.com/corvette/
Only 10k? I must have failed Algebra 2 then....
well maybe you did, because not only was the sticker on the Z06 I sold 2 weeks ago $68,500(no nav or anything special)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4613099325&category=6168
But it sold for $75,000 so yeh that would make it $10,000 difference at this point...
and the gentleman that purchased it has a Lambo, a Porsche and a couple of other exotics and is basically a casual buyer of first-outs who will probly drive it a few times and then turn around and sell it at a small loss(to him) to buy whatever is next out. $10K is a moot point(to him). So RIGHT NOW a Viper is a good deal vs. a Z06 all things considered.
That's eBaY....and the car you sold was also again...roughly 20k less then the Viper MSRP. I dont care what they sell for on eBaY. We all know new cars can sometimes go for anywhere from 1k-20k over MSRP if they can find someone dumb enough to buy it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ViperGTS
quote:
Corvette's depreciate faster then a Viper....so how would the price ever really be that close? Least, I had always been told that.
02/03 Viper sitting on the lot compared to a new Vette. They're about the same price with a possible 10k offset.
That would make sense.
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