http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/...S289.A9999.html

http://www.dodgeforum.com/upfiles/9989/59E06CDB49514410BB95365B391F53B4.jpg

2008 Toyota Tundra connects with demanding American full-size pickup buyers.

The 5.7-liter V-8

with its "fist-shaped" body, the new Tundra was designed to send the message it's a serious work truck

The Double Cab shown rides on 20-inch wheels.

Ok this thing is a TOTAL rip off of the Ram... First of all, they say they want to connect to American buyers. Yeah by stealing the Dodge design. Even the engine is now 5.7L, lol, with another engine option of 4.7L. THat first shaped body is the Ram's body. They even added 20 inch wheels. Look at the grill, put a cross haire there and boom! Look on the side, the badge is shaped like the HEMI badge. This is ridiculous.

yeh i see it. Chase did you also notice the front bottom fog lights?

Steal a design and make it ugly! That takes some real talent there! They took the Ram and f&%^ed it up!

OMG! thats so true....The only diff I see is the curve under the window in the ext cab...and some body but looks like a major rip off....post side by side pics of the ram or dak next to that so we can compare the 3 or even the raider

I spoke with Chase about this last night, but I'll elaborate here too.

This isnt as big a rip as you might think. Look at any current Toyota Tacoma...and you'll find some very striking resemblances to that new Tundra. Instead of adding flares, they built it into the truck. Otherwise, it does look a lot like the current Tacoma. I know the Tundra is the fullsize truck, but go look at a current 2005-06 Tacoma.....you'll find some very similar looking items.

Does it borrow some of the Ram's styling? Sure it does. Every new car borrows something from a popular model from the year before. Whether it be lights or a certain hood scoop etc.

The whole fist shaped front end is not exclusive to Dodge. Ford has used it. So to sit here and compare it exclusively to Dodge is a load. Also, the whole 5.7L engine part is also again, not exclusive to Dodge. Nissan has a 5.6L, which is basically the same thing. Chevy has a 5.3L and a 6.0L engine and Ford has the 5.4L V8. I mean, if borrowing the same engine size were a crime, well, you better arrest every car manufacturer on the planet.

Is this a Ram wannabe? Probably, and with good reason. The Ram is easily the best looking truck out there right now. That said, if I wasnt buying a Dodge, I'd be buying a Toyota. Outside of a diesel anyways [8D]

RIP OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hahahaha!! They most definately did get most of their designs from the Ram. I'm just glad that they idolize the Ram, America's best selling full sized pickup. Go Toyota!!


-Matt-

Jesus. And to think they will be building them here in my (soon to be old) home town........[:'(]

Dusty

ORIGINAL: ViperGTS

Hahahaha!! They most definately did get most of their designs from the Ram. I'm just glad that they idolize the Ram, America's best selling full sized pickup. Go Toyota!!


-Matt-

LOL Go Toyota? ha ha you want them to take over the world don't you?

That already have [sm=smiley2.gif]


-Matt-

We all will have to wait for the next Ram body. I'm sure it won't look like anything else out there. Dodge does not follow industry truck design, they lead it!

ORIGINAL: BigE

We all will have to wait for the next Ram body. I'm sure it won't look like anything else out there. Dodge does not follow industry truck design, they lead it!


That's rather funny, considering their current look is from a damn semi....

And Chevy and Fords designs are from trucks.... lol

uh....ford and chevy did the same...and from 93-present they kept the semi design in tact. Dont quite see the argument but ford did the most copying. And the current yota doesnt have lights seperating w/ the fenders...it has the flat nosed look and the raised center hood...or so the yota next door has. It still has flaired out fenders but not like that one. If they wanna copy somebody and it be legit.......I guess they could use the "we took our look from a semi" arguement.... But we see different;). If it werent for the auto economy jumping around so much lately it prolly wouldnt come to a copy-cat war between automakers.

That truck is hideous! Those fender wells are ugly...those rear passenger windows well, if I said they were ugly that would be an understatement!

I don't know how we got to Semi designs etc... it doesn't matter... If you compare this truck to a Ram... You wonder WTF? It doesn't mirror the Ford or Chevy... They never have had the fist shape like Dodge has...

And it's not just the fist shape that mirrors the Ram... It's the side Badge, the fog lights, the head lights, the line on the bumper, the ring around the grill, adding 20 inch wheels, introducing 5.7L and 4.7L engines...

Who cares what companies base their designs off of. The fact is, this isn't just a basic design that was taken.

This is what I really hate about Toyota. I hate the way they do business.

ORIGINAL: clean_sx

RIP OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

same here!!! if i had an rpg, i'd shoot that f*&^ked up mimic! GAHH!!!! I CAN'T STAND IT ANY MORE WITH TOYODA!

ORIGINAL: DevilsReject

The whole fist shaped front end is not exclusive to Dodge. Ford has used it. So to sit here and compare it exclusively to Dodge is a load. Also, the whole 5.7L engine part is also again, not exclusive to Dodge. Nissan has a 5.6L, which is basically the same thing. Chevy has a 5.3L and a 6.0L engine and Ford has the 5.4L V8. I mean, if borrowing the same engine size were a crime, well, you better arrest every car manufacturer on the planet.




dont forget pontiacs 5.7

This truck is really going to be something to compete with though, towing over 10,000lbs, and that 5.7 is putting out 335hp and 375 torque I think? No denying they took alot of styling ques and engine choices. Lets hope dodge comes out with something.

Ya, that's pretty pathetic. It's looks like a Laramie Ram (a hideous one). It's got the same front bumper style. Stinkin Japs!!

I showed my Grandpa this 07' Tundra and he said "Looks like they tried to make a Dodge Ram."

I thought the Titan was ugly when it came out, but this new Tundra, is the ugliest truck I've seen. Given a choice of Titan or new Tundra, I'd take a Titan.

I agree the fenders remind me of a Ram, but the lines are different on this truck than a 3rd Gen. Ram. I think Toyotas have always been plain and ugly, so this won't keep people from buying them. The real news is in the powertrain. 335 hp and 375 ft. lbs of torque isn't bad.

What is REALLY crazy is that Toyota dealers are having problems getting rid of their inventory of their current trucks. Seems as though people are waiting for the new model to come out......

Dusty

look at that damn hood....looks just like a rams hood. their tacomas stole some design cues from the dakota..now they are doing it to the ram....i bet the tailaban is over joyed.toyota needs to pack up their **** and head back over seas...

ORIGINAL: DevilsReject


ORIGINAL: BigE

We all will have to wait for the next Ram body. I'm sure it won't look like anything else out there. Dodge does not follow industry truck design, they lead it!


That's rather funny, considering their current look is from a damn semi....


I don't know what semis are or what they are abbreviated from, but whatever a semi it, the Dodge makes it look good ;):D[8D] lol.

I'm not worried about them copying the ram, the next gen ram body will probably knock their socks off. I don't know about looks but we have been diong a good job of leading the truck industry so far...

Imagine, if it wasn't for the HEMI, Nissan and others wouldn't have the big engines they have in there now because tehre would have been noone as stand-outish to compete against. It's dodge that is setting all the benchmarks. Well maybe I'm being a little too "assuming", but as far as i know, The toyota and other future trucks are not looking like the ram by sheer coincidence.

Well, as the owner of a Durango, and former owner of a Toyota T100, I can tell you this; the Toyota is a MUCH better vehicle. I agree that the new Tundra stole a few styling cues from the Ram, but that is where it ends. Any comparison in motor displacement is superficial. The Toyota will be what all Toyotas are...reliable. The Dodge? Not so much. If you question this then you just don't know anything about cars. I invite you to look at Consumer Reports for verification. Oh, and whoever it was that said that Dodge is the best selling full size truck in America is clueless. According to what statistics? Ford is, was and will be for a long time the best selling full size truck in America.

Anyway, all anyone in this thread talks about is how ugly the Toyota is, and how good looking the Dodge is. I'm sure your mechanic will appreciate having your really nice looking truck in his shop as often as possible. I'll stick with reliability...especially since the Toyota is now a legitimate full size truck.

Scroll to the bottom to compare full size trucks. (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/types/pickups/vehicle-ratings-comparison/ratings.htm)



Peace

toyota is number 2 # for the most recalls ford is number 1# chrysler is number 4# i had a 2002 toyota tundra no miles when i bought it. well ill say this much i could wright a damn book on all the **** to go wrong with it. bad breaks, bad rotors,tranmission troubles the 4x4 ****ing up all the time want me to go on???? traded it in for a 2002 dodge dakota reg cab 4x4 i still have it a strong hard running truck alot better then the pos tundra i had. my dakota has over 90,000 miles on it and it still runs like the day i drove it off the lot. now toyota redesigns its tundra to look like the ram even has a 5.7 engine as dodge. its just like what viper for sale said a few months ago. toyota is trying to play in to the dodge row.they want to be the dodge on the import side. my point ill never own another toyota as long as i live i think ill take a 06 hemi ram next month.

Dakota Rampage -
It definitely sounds like you had a bad experience, but that is much more rare with Toyota than any other brand, except maybe Honda. We all know people who swear by one brand and hate another because they have horror stories like yours. Again, check the reliability statistics. Toyota is almost always at the top.

The only thing I can say about the recalls (I'll have to take your word that Ford and Toyota are #1 and #2) is Dodge has been slow to issue recalls for known problems.

Don't get me wrong, I have owned Chrysler products for years, so I do like them. I have had one Jeep Cherokee, three Grand Cherokees, one Dakota and one Durango. The best Chrysler product I have ever owned is my 2000 Grand Cherokee, which my wife still drives to this day. My Durango has helped me establish a long term friendship with my mechanic. Go Figure.

I'm probably trading in the Durango for a new Tundra next year.


Peace

i think consumer reports is full of S*** they love anything that is jap and they say anything american is decent. And why drive a toyota when you can drive a DODGE.

COMPANY 2005 RECALLS AS A % OF VEHICLES IN OPERATION

1-FORD 11.7%
2-TOYOTA 10.1%
3-GM 6.8%
4-HONDA 4.0%
5-CHRYSLER 2.5%

Sources: R.L. Polk & Co.; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0703/058b.html?partner=alerts

If Toyota is reliable, then I'm Bill Gates....

Lol i was about to quote you midnight.
That post of yours -proved- dependability in just a few lines.



I really don't like it when people like him don't bring in facts. That's the only thing i argue with. If you don't bring in facts then you will be ignored. People will always say, man i owned a toyota or nissan and they're way better. By what standards? your own? that is your OPINION? how is that going to convince me logically that it is better? Logic is truth opinions are bs. I know two of my friends that drive toyotas that act the same way. I wonder if a stereotype is going to happen in the near future like mustang owners' stereotyped for being ricer. Toyota owners will argue until they're blue in the face that theirs is the longest lasting, but none of them have convinced me yet.


The fact is: "Compared to toyota's previous tundra, the tundra's new styling is more closely similar to the ram's body styling in many key areas"
now, accepting that for what it is, the truth, convince me that it is coincidence or convince me otherwise. That's the first steps to debate as to why, as you said, the "toyota is so much better than the ram."

that's like scientists saying the moon really is made of cheese and have no proof or evidence of experimentation or anything at all. People who bring in no facts to support their statements burns my hide! [sm=bomb.gif]

oh yea, and i don't recall anybody here saying that the dodge ram is the best-selling truck in america....

i rest my case.........

Whatever its trying to be, it will be 1 thing for sure, Over rated.

Just as the Titan and its Dana44 rear end and massive TSBs up the ass.


Sorry but these and just about all Toyota trucks are really boring.

JD POWER...notice not a single Chrysler product made this list (http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/29/Autos/jdpower_depend_tops/index.htm)

Another reliability statistical study report (http://www.roadandtravel.com/consumerreports/reliabilitytrends.htm)

Here's an excerpt from the above article: "As the problem rate for domestic vehicles improved slightly, the quality gap between U.S. and Asian makes narrowed slightly. Still, the average 2003 U.S. model still has 50 percent more problems than the average Japanese model."

Oh, by the way, I did provide facts to back up my point in my original post. The response I got was "i think consumer reports is full of S***". Brilliant! So, you don't agree with the statistics and what they prove, so you randomly dismiss them?

How about this from Forbes...it conatins the recall stats that you all seem so fond of, yet you seem to ignore what was said in this article about WHY Toyota has so many recalls.

Forbes article on recalls (http://www.forbes.com/archive/forbes/2006/0703/058b.html;jsessionid=02dd_ELPJoa1M1oE?token=MTEgSn VsIDIwMDYgMTU6MzY6MjMgKzAwMDA%3D)

Here's an excerpt:
"Toyota, moreover, has perfected the art of detecting and fixing quality problems early, often before customers even notice them. "What we tend to see is that if a customer receives a recall notice before their car exhibits any symptoms, they don't see it as a problem," says Chance Parker of J.D. Power. It counts as a recall, for sure, but the Power surveys are gauging consumers' level of satisfaction. And Toyota knows how to keep customers satisfied. It gives its dealers plenty of leeway to fix customer complaints even postwarranty--by some accounts as much as $3,000 per vehicle.

Despite the headlines, it's not clear that Toyota's recall numbers are any worse than those of the other carmakers. The amount it spends making good on warranties is 1.2% of revenues versus 2.4% for GM and 2.3% for Ford (nyse: F - news - people ). Last year when Toyota had 12 recalls, covering 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., GM had 30, covering 5.1 million, and Ford had 17, covering 6 million"

Lastly, it was ViperGTS who said "Hahahaha!! They most definately did get most of their designs from the Ram. I'm just glad that they idolize the Ram, America's best selling full sized pickup. Go Toyota!!"

If you want me to provide additional FACTS to support my position, I'll be glad to do so. Until then, I would suggest that you should be able to provide some solid evidence that Toyota's are not more reliable than Chrysler products. I mean, I think the Forbes article makes it clear that Toyota chooses to address their problems in a timely fashion, and that's why the higher recall numbers. What is Chrysler doing? They refuse to issue a recall for a defect, so their cars are more reliable simply because the recall numbers are lower? Show me reliability statistics that back that up.

Oh, but the important part is that the Ram is better looking! Good call Jethro.

The Tundra is still a weak little car is a trucks clothing... lol

Compare them in truck categories and the Ram wins... lol

Compare the Tundra to the Ram in "truck categories"? Ok, as soon as the new Tundra we are all discussing is released and the "truck category" figures are available I think that would be fun. I have a feeling that you may not like what this comparison reveals. However, I am sure that you will simply ignore the facts, anyway...just like the rest of the facts I have presented. But the Ram is real good looking!

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage - Mythbusters

I have not ignored anything you said... You are way to uptight... Un wind...

LMURRAY... you need to relax.....calm down.. they are no dout the new tundra will out tow the current ram when it comes out in the market.but you have to look how long is that going to last???chevy silverado just around the ben what are their power and payload numbers??? what about ford f150.. dodge and their upcoming ram and lets not forget the nissan titan all yet to have a redesign all with better hp, epa, payload and towing with better value and quality..mabey you would be better fit in a toyota forum .

Calm down? I don't think I was the one who got bent out of shape. You little girls got your panties in a bunch when I stated that the Toyota is the more reliable vehicle. You then proceeded to challenge that position and throw out recall stats. All I did was shoot holes in that with facts and statistics.

I am a member at www.tundrasolutions.com, as well as here. As I said before, I currently own two Chrysler products, and I've had a string of Cherokees and Grand Cherokees over the years. My original point was that my 5.9L Durango has been problematic with commonly known issues that Chrysler refuses to address, so I would be switching to the new Tundra for its reliability over a Dodge. Especially since Toyota is finally building a true full size truck. And yes, I realize that the Big Three will likely answer Toyota's challenge, but isn't ironic that Toyota is the company that will be setting the next benchmark?

By the way, Toyota is cleaning up in the Craftsman Truck Series. I've always been a Mopar guy, but the new Tundra is definitely going to be awesome and impossible for the Big Three to ignore. If they do Toyota will dominate the full size truck segment. No one thought the Camry would ever surpass the Taurus as the #1 selling car in America all those years ago, and I'm sure no one thinks the Tundra will surpass the F150 either.


Peace

This guy is funny.... REALLY funny... I think he is gonna have a heart attack lol

Toyota Reliability - http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_512420/tm.htm

A heart attack? No, a laugh attack.

You guys absolutely refuse to READ. I posted statistics and facts based on surveys and studies...but obviously that doesn't compare to the opinions of a group of Dodge fanatics (I read the posts in your link).

The funny part is watching you guys try to argue with logic...without using reason. What a bunch of little hoes. But you're MY hoes, and I promise not to abuse you too much! LMAO!!!!

hey..lmurray when you go out for night on the town in the new tundra.let us know how many hoes you picked up in that ugly pos!hahahaha!!!

Picking up hoes is not exactly why I would buy a truck. Besides, everyone is saying that the Tundra is just a copy of the Ram, thus the title of this thread "2008 Toyota Ram", so calling the Tundra ugly sort of works against your argument, doesn't it? I think the Ram is a bad-ass looking truck, and I think Toyota was smart to model the new Tundra after the best looking truck on the road. Consider it a tribute to the Ram.

ORIGINAL: shadowviper

hey..lmurray when you go out for night on the town in the new tundra.let us know how many hoes you picked up in that ugly pos!hahahaha!!!



LMAO hahahaha

ORIGINAL: Lmurray
Besides, everyone is saying that the Tundra is just a copy of the Ram, thus the title of this thread "2008 Toyota Ram", so calling the Tundra ugly sort of works against your argument, doesn't it?


We say the Tundra stole the looks of the Ram, but made it ugly. ;)

ORIGINAL: deranged
Steal a design and make it ugly! That takes some real talent there! They took the Ram and f&%^ed it up!

ORIGINAL: jdcovert
Ya, that's pretty pathetic. It's looks like a Laramie Ram (a hideous one). It's got the same front bumper style. Stinkin Japs!!

I say the Ram and new Tundra both drew their inspirations from the same source...tractor trailer rigs like the Freightliner and Mack trucks.


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Freightliner/Dodge Ram = same company.... DaimlerChrysler....

Toyota did not just take the fist look from the ram... Give it up... They tried to make their own Ram and it didn't work out...

Hino/Toyota = same company...not many people know that Toyota makes these trucks, and the resemblance to the new Tundra is obvious. Hino Trucks made by Toyota (http://www.hino.com/)


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I think it all balances out in the long run as far as cost is concerned. You pay more for for a toyota brand, and it will run longer before problems arise. But when the problem does arise, it will cost you two arms, two legs, your wife, and kids to get it fixed in some cases.

When you buy domestic brand, sure, it is cheaper, things do go wrong, but it is way cheaper to fix and you get to keep your arms, legs, wife and kids to get it fixed in some cases.

All in all, all auto manufacturers have at least a 3-5 year bumper to bumper warranty that will cover most of these could be mortage payment repairs.

It's looking long term if you want to keep your ride after the warranty period that you can actually compare cost. Imports can cost as much as 2-3 times or more to fix than domestics for a single repair job, no doubt about it.

Who cares about recalls and such, it's free, just cost you a little of your time to get it into the shop to get it fixed. No single maker is perfect. Everyone has its flaws. The big 3 has more recalls because of its overall total vehicles it builds is problaby 10 times more than the imports. So if you compare total vehicles built vs recalls ratios, the domestics and imports are problaby on par with each other.

All in all, when it comes to full size trucks, the big 3 has been in the game since the birth of autos. You still see the big 3 trucks out on the road that are 30 or more years old and and still running! Mainly the truck buyers are farmers and and construction workers. When they buy trucks, its for the long haul way after the warranty expires. They know what trucks will last and last and last. Import makers are just getting their tires wet and trying to force their way in and overtake the big 3 by using their known reputations for reliability. They haven't proved "Reliability" yet as Toyota and Nissan are still new to this market. Granted, their compact trucks are well known but we will wait and see how their big brother trucks stand out in the long term like 15 to 20 years from now.

Also, most full size trucks people buy for longevity are the heavy duty 2500-3500 class. Toyota nor Nissan or any import has touched this segment yet.

what is the HP for the 5.7 in the new tundra............we know its going be more then 345..or mabey not

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

Hino/Toyota = same company...not many people know that Toyota makes these trucks, and the resemblance to the new Tundra is obvious. Hino Trucks made by Toyota (http://www.hino.com/)


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Only thing I see is the fist shape and the headlights... Like I said, they took more than that from the Ram...

Well, the looks of any truck is totally subjective. I read on another board that people thought that the Ram was ugly. I don't agree, but there's no question that there's an ass for every seat. Some people actually buy the Pontiac Aztec and Honda Element! Yuk!

Even though I am likely going to buy a Tundra (pending a test drive) I still think the Ram is the best looking truck on the road. I don't care for the tail lights on the new Tundra, and the rear window is too small. However, unlike a few of those that have posted in this thread, I have had great luck with Toyotas over the years. I am looking forward to a Toyota truck that can accomodate my job, my family and my weekend boating. Even my 5.9l Durango struggles towing the boat up hills, and that gets old quick.

Kensai's post is right on, and Midnight...I do not argue your point that the Tundra has definitely borrowed some styling cues from the Ram. But, as I said, I think that's a compliment to the Ram. What better looking truck to resemble? However, both trucks are designed to look like a big ol' badass semi rig because people associate big rigs with mostrous power and longevity.

[sm=confused06.gif]i dont like it!!!mabey its the blue color? hey lmarray see if you can find us a pic of a 07 reg cab tundra

Well, I have tracked down a few photos of the Tundra in something other than blue. The only regular cab photo I can find on the internet is a spy photo, so the headlights and tailights are camoflaged. I agree with you on the blue color, but I still don't like the tailights and rear window, and I think the rear door handle should have been the same as the front handle.


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well it does have some ram DNA in it!!!looks like nissan going to have to change their name from titan to midget!!!!iam not really big on toyotas myself.because of some problems i had with a tacoma afterward!.ive always been a dodge and ford man its just me but everybody diffrent.if you like this truck then buy it!!and it would not hurt to post some pics of your new truck..

With Toyota entering the NASCAR Circuit, do you suppose the designs are linked closely together. Except for name plates, most of those NASCAR trucks and cars all look the same in shape and design.[sm=smiley25.gif]

ORIGINAL: Midnight

And Chevy and Fords designs are from trucks.... lol


Well DCX does own Frightliner

I hope I see some on the road.... only so I can run them off!

ORIGINAL: moparkj

I hope I see some on the road.... only so I can run them off!


I hope you own an SRT10...otherwise you won't be able to catch one! 381hp and 401lb.ft torque with more room in the CrewMax than a MegaCab.

I'm trading in my 5.9 Durango ASAP on a black CrewMax Limited!




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There's a thread on the Toyoa Mega C.... I mean Crew Max...

*(Bump)


Toyota sucks,:)


Yay for me, I dont have to drive one



(Good posts guys

Typical Jap knock off - how boringly uncreative [:-].( about as much so as FORD was when they when they heisted the design for their
Stupid Duty).Isn't this exactly whatToyota did with the Tacoma/Trashcoma, when they used the old Dakota design.Amazing when people claim how savey the Japs are at designing vehicles ,that they have to resort to cobbing a USA design. Dont call it a RAM Think of it as a Toyota LAM - deeishonorable! How long did it finally takeToyota to build a full size pick up thats actually full size? I.E. they called the T-300 full size - then the current Tonjunk. Now by their own admission they are saying this new TUNJUNK is actually the full size that the other 2 never were !...How long did it take them to figure out to put a V-8 in a truck (then when they finally did they stuck that big klunky looking V-8 emblem in the grille).What choices do they offer for suspensions and engines and where the Diesel ever been??.wow they sure are trend setters. I wonder what design they will design they will screw up next. Im glad Chevy beat them out for truck of the year..No surprise though how many tries did it take for Toyota or Honda for that matter to get even the mini van right - something Mopar has done right since day one !

get your facts straight ! sorry to bust your bubble -

Crew cab: Tundra CrewMax has more back seat room than any other standard-duty crew-cab except the Dodge Ram Mega Cab.

also the Mega Cab is on a Heavy Duty Chassis NOT a Standard duty chassis

ORIGINAL: MG42pillbox

*(Bump)


Toyota sucks,:)


Yay for me, I dont have to drive one



(Good posts guys


aww man, i have to. well, at least it was before Toyota got off the hook! 94 pickup, so its not copy!;)


My friend and I agreed you can like Toyota trucks before 94. but anything over is BULLSH!T.
Hino-copys-Freightliner
Toyota-copys-Dodge

im sure im missing something. oh yea, thats why God made terrorists, to attack Toyota's

They were overrated before they overrated themselves.

ORIGINAL: MG42pillbox

They were overrated before they overrated themselves.

yea, thats true. good point btw.

Lmurray has a bad case of dillusion. CR is the worst outlet anyone can listen to. They flip-flop on everything. Just look at how they rated the LX cars. They claim that in the 300, the HEMI-equipped models are less reliable than the V6 versions, yet in the Charger and Magnum the HEMI-equipped model is rated at being more reliable. They claim that Toyota's hybrid system makes their cars MORE reliable despite the problems they have had with the gas-powered engines shutting down and not restarting. Also in their list of reliability ratings, the hybrid version of the Toyota Highlander is more reliable than the normal V6 version yet the Ford Escape which uses Toyota's hybrid system is way LESS reliable than its normal I4 version.

Just look at the different versions of the Camry. In the sedan version the V6 model is considered way more reliable than the V6, yet the coupe convertible version of the Camry (the Solara) notes it is instead the I4 that is more reliable. The Fusion/Milan I4 is rated as being more reliable than the V6 version, yet the Mazda 6 V6 is rated as being more reliable than the I4 version despite they are the same powertrain and on the same platform.

How about their past ratings? They listed all the manufactures who had oil sludge problems. The only one that had consistent most reliable ratings was Toyota, and guess what. They had the most effected models because the oil sludge covered not just one engine but two! Did this effect the Camry's ratings sinceBOTH engines were offered. No, it didn't.

How about the Ford trucks vs. GM trucks? They go back and forth depending on what category it is despite the fact that their all basically the same. CR is a waste of time. J.D. Power judges stupid things like how well the fit and finish is:eek:. Yeah, when Iam on theside of the road due to a broken transmission in the new Camry (which is a major part of their recalls), I'm really going to care how good the fit and finish is.

Toyota has been known to inflate their numbers. Look at the output of the previous Camry with the 3.0L and the initial redesigned Avalon with the current one. I'd be more concerned about reliability issues with the Tundra. The new 5.7L is all-aluminum. A truck is more likely to face overheating than a car. Not a good idea. Toyota's latest transmissions have had problems, I wouldn't want to take the risk. Also I read a comparison once (this was back in 2002 I think) where each manufacturer gave a truck to a farmer's magazine. The Ford was able to put up with the abuse the best, Toyota did the worst.

Lmurray, the current Ram no longer offers the 5.9L or the 46RE; therefore, a 5.7L HEMI Magnum with a 545RFE I'm quite sure will provide more than adequate hp & torque for your boat. The 5.7L produces roughly 100 more hp & 30 ft-lbs of tq. The 545RFE offers much better gearing for both fuel economy and towing since it is a 5-speed.

I'm not delusional at all. I just understand what CR is reporting. The "flip-flopping" that you are noting is not flip-flopping at all. They are reporting reliability based on statistics for each brand and MODEL. Therefore, just because two models share a drivetrain does not mean that both models are equally reliable. They aren't giving you reliability ratings for an engine or transmission, but for a particular model.

And yes, Toyota has had it's share of issues (sludge, transmissions, etc.) however, those issues are typically more rare than with the "domestic" brands. Also, the recent rise in issues with Toyota products coincides with the increase in the number of Toyotas manufactured here in the States. Not a very good report card for our workforce.

And as far as the Farmer Magazine comparo, I don't doubt that the domestics outperformed the old Tundra. The Tundra wasn't designed to be a workhorse. It was designed for the average suburban dweller who makes the occasional trip to Home Depot for weekend projects, and haul light boats and trailers. You know...the way most of the light duty truck consumers in America actually use their trucks.

Now the 2007 Tundra is on par with the half-ton trucks from the Big 2.5 in every area, and people still need to find something to pick apart. The fact is, the new Tundra is a true full size truck that hauls and tows as much as anything in it's class, is roomier than before and should be a competetive truck in the market that will hopefully spur the Big 2.5 to improve their trucks. Competition is good.

As for the 5.9l vs the 5.7l HEMI...I like the 381hp and 401lb.ft. from the new Toyota 5.7l

Also...to address what brandloyalty said about the Mega Cab vs CrewMax rear leg room...the CrewMax does have slightly more leg room. The Mega Cab has a bit more hip and shoulder room, though.

For those of you griping that Toyota has stolen the Ram's design...I agree that the new Tundra borrows quite a bit from the Ram, but why not? The Ram is the best looking truck on the road, and Toyota wants the new truck to look American. What better truck to imitate? What did you want them to do? Make it look unique like the ugly Titan? That truck looks entirely too Japanese and the sales numbers reflect that fact.

I think the new Tundra looks BADA$$!

It is flip-flopping when the only difference is between two models is that one is a coupe and another is a sedan. The problem is that they don't allow well known facts to effect their reliability ratings. The sludge problem with Toyota was actually more widespread than one one elses. I remember reading about that in one of their articles but the difference is it didn't effect their reliability ratings nor their recommendation ratings either.

For your info, I know lots of people who have had Japan built Toyotas and have had just as many problems as U.S. built ones. CR claims that until just this last year Toyotas ratings are always reaching a new peak. That is the company's fault not the location of the workers. If Japan is so much better at making cars reliable how come many of the other companieswho make just about everything in Japan are lowerin reliability ratings than the U.S. built ones?

At first people thought the Titan was the best truck on the market but in time the platform proved otherwise.

Toyota is the most overrated manufacuter in history. Idon't buy those hp & tq ratings just yet and I'm not about to just trust a brand newengine design that hasn't been proven yet andI hold that standard to every manufacturer no matter who they are.

It is not flip flopping. You are basing that statement on the fact that multiple models share a drivetrain, but they are basing their the number of reported problems with a particular model. If they used your liogic they wouldn't be rating individual models, they would be rating drivetrains. Therefore, a Camry, Highlander and Lexus ES300 would all be in group, even though all three likely experience different types of problems and with more or less frequency. One could make the assumption that since all three share a basic platform and drivetrain that they would be equally reliable (or unreliable), however, you and I both know that isn't always the case...whether we can explain that fact or not is irrelevant.

As for Jap built cars vs American built, I don't remember saying that no Jap built car has ever had issues, or that they are perfect. We all know a Toyota owner or twenty that has had problems with their cars, just as owners of American made cars have problems. Historically, though Toyota and Honda have established a reputation for building cars that are more reliable. Any mechanic will tell you the same thing. Why don't the other Japanese automakers build cars that are as reliable as Toyota and Honda? I don't know...maybe for the same reason Ford cars are notoriously piles of $hit....while their trucks are much more reliable. Go figure!

All I am saying is, I have owned Chryslers for years, and I miss the solid reliability of my old T100. So, my next truck will be the new Tundra. I love Dodge and Mopar performance, but if I am buying a $40k truck this summer I'll take my chances with another Toyota...who knows? Maybe I'll be back here in a year singing another tune?!?!?!

I did not compare the Camry, Highlander, and Lexus ES 300 those are significantly different. The Camry vs the Camry Solara are virtually the same yet they get very different realibility ratings. The difference between a Charger/Magnum and a Chrysler 300 is marginal yet they get different ratings. The fact is that when the only difference between a hybrid model and a non-hybrid model is in fact the hybrid system and they are inconsistent on whether the system is infact reliable or not based on the brand of the user, it discredits the source.

I have know just as many people have problems with Toyotas as I know people that have had problems with each domestic brand. I actually know more people that have had positive experiences with the Big Three than I know of people that have had good luck with Toyota. Look at the service guides on some of Toyota's cars and you will see why the get better ratings. They have you replace things more often. That is about it.

I think you should at least wait until the first year bugs are worked out, that goes with all brands. Toyota has had more issues lately with first year models.

every single time i've picked up a CR all they did was bash the domestics and praised the imports, even when i know people that have owned the imports that they were praising and wishing that they didn't own it. hmm. oh yea we've had our fair share of Toyota's and Japanese cars. all of them we're either money pits or died before 150,000. they were the LAST imported cars we bought, and now all we drive are Chryslers. why? cause our Chryslers have NEVER let us down. both our Neons have well over 200,000 and still going. we had some Reliants and those things went forever and we had another Chrysler vehical but i dont remember what it was (before my time)

This again comes to the point that all automobile publications are in bed with the Asian auto market. That is why I dont follow ratings one bit. I make my own judgements on products and never let anyone or thing sway me. I have never had any major problem with Chrysler products whatsoever. No one can tell me that any Asian made vehicle is made any better than any of the domestic brands; I know better. My aunt bought a brand new Honda Civic a couple of years ago and has had the tranny worked on several times, but she still swears its the best car she's ever driven. The thing is before the Civic she owned a Dodge Neon; she nit-picked every damn thing that was wrong with it. Every little squeel, thud, or bump; she complained. Thats what bugs me; people who've had probs with any domestic car are quick to go Asian, but when they have the same or as many probs with their "better" Asian car;they still swear on the product. Why can't people dothe same with the Domestics?

ORIGINAL: Dakota_24

This again comes to the point that all automobile publications are in bed with the Asian auto market. That is why I dont follow ratings one bit. I make my own judgements on products and never let anyone or thing sway me. I have never had any major problem with Chrysler products whatsoever. No one can tell me that any Asian made vehicle is made any better than any of the domestic brands; I know better. My aunt bought a brand new Honda Civic a couple of years ago and has had the tranny worked on several times, but she still swears its the best car she's ever driven. The thing is before the Civic she owned a Dodge Neon; she nit-picked every damn thing that was wrong with it. Every little squeel, thud, or bump; she complained. Thats what bugs me; people who've had probs with any domestic car are quick to go Asian, but when they have the same or as many probs with their "better" Asian car;they still swear on the product. Why can't people dothe same with the Domestics?


I assume you have proof that "all automobile publications are in bed with the Asian auto market"? If Carlos Mencia read this post you would get a Dee Dee Dee Award. If the car magazines are in bed with the Asian auto market, then why did the Siverado win Truck of the Year? Ohhh...wait...I got it...is it because the Silverado is more Asian than theTundra? I mean, the Tundra was designed here, is built here and contains more American made parts than any other half ton truck on the market (fact...look it up). Interesting...the Silverado wins because it is potentially more Asian than the Toyota. I see your point now! It's all a conspiracy. The Asians must have auto mechanics in their pockets too, because I don't know a mechanic that won't recommend a Honda or Toyota over a domestic vehicle for reliability.

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

ORIGINAL: Dakota_24

This again comes to the point that all automobile publications are in bed with the Asian auto market. That is why I dont follow ratings one bit. I make my own judgements on products and never let anyone or thing sway me. I have never had any major problem with Chrysler products whatsoever. No one can tell me that any Asian made vehicle is made any better than any of the domestic brands; I know better. My aunt bought a brand new Honda Civic a couple of years ago and has had the tranny worked on several times, but she still swears its the best car she's ever driven. The thing is before the Civic she owned a Dodge Neon; she nit-picked every damn thing that was wrong with it. Every little squeel, thud, or bump; she complained. Thats what bugs me; people who've had probs with any domestic car are quick to go Asian, but when they have the same or as many probs with their "better" Asian car;they still swear on the product. Why can't people dothe same with the Domestics?


I assume you have proof that "all automobile publications are in bed with the Asian auto market"? If Carlos Mencia read this post you would get a Dee Dee Dee Award. If the car magazines are in bed with the Asian auto market, then why did the Siverado win Truck of the Year? Ohhh...wait...I got it...is it because the Silverado is more Asian than theTundra? I mean, the Tundra was designed here, is built here and contains more American made parts than any other half ton truck on the market (fact...look it up). Interesting...the Silverado wins because it is potentially more Asian than the Toyota. I see your point now! It's all a conspiracy. The Asians must have auto mechanics in their pockets too, because I don't know a mechanic that won't recommend a Honda or Toyota over a domestic vehicle for reliability.
First off; the proof is in the pudding! When you go to the news stand and pick up C&D, MW, MT or read it on the internet, about 80% of that publication is some sort of praise of most of the new Asian cars in the market..Boy; you don't read much do you?
The Chevy Silverado is "Truck of The Year" simply because its the new design, and the first newly designed truck announced. The Tundra hadnt been announced yet. This happens every year with every redesigned car, or truck. Gawd; I guess the Asians have brainwashed ya, because you are blind to everything around ya!

And lastly; You'd get the "Dee, Dee, Dee" award; because its as night, and day. The proof is right in front of your face and you are numb too it!

A lot of those automotive publications, like Dakota_24 said, are in bed with Asian automotive makers.
They over-emphasise the falsely high Asian reliability ratings, and than state the American made products are pieces of crap.
Toyota covered up lots of recalls. If it would have been an American auto company, we would have heard about this for years. Since it was Toyota, it was a "we'll right an article on this, and than forget about it tommorow" thing.
Toyota and Nissian build a crappy truck, and nothing gets talked about. An American truck has a few problems, and it haunts the model for the next few years.
A problem pops up in Jap crap cars, and the problem is "small, probably doesn't effect your car" (even if it is, really, wide spread). A small problem pops up in American cars, and they tell you, "should have bought Asian."

Also, I agree with Dakota_24. People probably aren't as knit-picky with Asian cars as with American cars, because they are so convinced that Asian cars are better.
I've stopped listening to those supposed reliability ratings a long time ago and went along with instinct: American vehicles rule.

ORIGINAL: dodgerules86

A lot of those automotive publications, like Dakota_24 said, are in bed with Asian automotive makers.
They over-emphasise the falsely high Asian reliability ratings, and than state the American made products are pieces of crap.
Toyota covered up lots of recalls. If it would have been an American auto company, we would have heard about this for years. Since it was Toyota, it was a "we'll right an article on this, and than forget about it tommorow" thing.
Toyota and Nissian build a crappy truck, and nothing gets talked about. An American truck has a few problems, and it haunts the model for the next few years.
A problem pops up in Jap crap cars, and the problem is "small, probably doesn't effect your car" (even if it is, really, wide spread). A small problem pops up in American cars, and they tell you, "should have bought Asian."

Also, I agree with Dakota_24. People probably aren't as knit-picky with Asian cars as with American cars, because they are so convinced that Asian cars are better.
I've stopped listening to those supposed reliability ratings a long time ago and went along with instinct: American vehicles rule.


...and the UFO that crashed in Roswell was made by Honda...shhh...the government doesn't want us to know about this! It's a conspiracy!

If the auto magazines are biased towards Japanese cars, as you say...why would that be? Are the magazine editors a bunch of anti-American communists who are trying to destroy our economy?

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

ORIGINAL: dodgerules86

A lot of those automotive publications, like Dakota_24 said, are in bed with Asian automotive makers.
They over-emphasise the falsely high Asian reliability ratings, and than state the American made products are pieces of crap.
Toyota covered up lots of recalls. If it would have been an American auto company, we would have heard about this for years. Since it was Toyota, it was a "we'll right an article on this, and than forget about it tommorow" thing.
Toyota and Nissian build a crappy truck, and nothing gets talked about. An American truck has a few problems, and it haunts the model for the next few years.
A problem pops up in Jap crap cars, and the problem is "small, probably doesn't effect your car" (even if it is, really, wide spread). A small problem pops up in American cars, and they tell you, "should have bought Asian."

Also, I agree with Dakota_24. People probably aren't as knit-picky with Asian cars as with American cars, because they are so convinced that Asian cars are better.
I've stopped listening to those supposed reliability ratings a long time ago and went along with instinct: American vehicles rule.


...and the UFO that crashed in Roswell was made by Honda...shhh...the government doesn't want us to know about this! It's a conspiracy!

If the auto magazines are biased towards Japanese cars, as you say...why would that be? Are the magazine editors a bunch of anti-American communists who are trying to destroy our economy?
First off....WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING??? Second...BECAUSE THEY ARE IDIOTS AND ARE PAID TOO!! and Third...DING, DING, DING, DING!!! What do we have for this contestant? How about a copy of the favorite song from the classic movie The Wizard of Oz: "If I Only Had A Brain"; Sung by the Scare Crow!!!!
What do you think Dodgerules86??

ORIGINAL: Dakota_24

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

ORIGINAL: dodgerules86

A lot of those automotive publications, like Dakota_24 said, are in bed with Asian automotive makers.
They over-emphasise the falsely high Asian reliability ratings, and than state the American made products are pieces of crap.
Toyota covered up lots of recalls. If it would have been an American auto company, we would have heard about this for years. Since it was Toyota, it was a "we'll right an article on this, and than forget about it tommorow" thing.
Toyota and Nissian build a crappy truck, and nothing gets talked about. An American truck has a few problems, and it haunts the model for the next few years.
A problem pops up in Jap crap cars, and the problem is "small, probably doesn't effect your car" (even if it is, really, wide spread). A small problem pops up in American cars, and they tell you, "should have bought Asian."

Also, I agree with Dakota_24. People probably aren't as knit-picky with Asian cars as with American cars, because they are so convinced that Asian cars are better.
I've stopped listening to those supposed reliability ratings a long time ago and went along with instinct: American vehicles rule.


...and the UFO that crashed in Roswell was made by Honda...shhh...the government doesn't want us to know about this! It's a conspiracy!

If the auto magazines are biased towards Japanese cars, as you say...why would that be? Are the magazine editors a bunch of anti-American communists who are trying to destroy our economy?
First off....WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING??? Second...BECAUSE THEY ARE IDIOTS AND ARE PAID TOO!! and Third...DING, DING, DING, DING!!! What do we have for this contestant? How about a copy of the favorite song from the classic movie The Wizard of Oz: "If I Only Had A Brain"; Sung by the Scare Crow!!!!
What do you think Dodgerules86??


Wow...brilliant post. So, again...what proof do have that they are "paid"?

Anyway, I'm sure that you can get Dodgerules86 to team up with you. I mean, if two idiots make the same groundless statement then it must be true, right?

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

...and the UFO that crashed in Roswell was made by Honda...shhh...the government doesn't want us to know about this! It's a conspiracy!



Interesting theory...but seeing as how the UFO broke down and crashed, it was more then likely made by Ford. No seriously, your very funny, I've found great humor from your previous posts so please continue.

ORIGINAL: 03neonRT

ORIGINAL: Lmurray

...and the UFO that crashed in Roswell was made by Honda...shhh...the government doesn't want us to know about this! It's a conspiracy!



Interesting theory...but seeing as how the UFO broke down and crashed, it was more then likely made by Ford. No seriously, your very funny, I've found great humor from your previous posts so please continue.


Dude, I am not trying to be funny. I'm trying to make a point that if domestic auto makers can't make a product that is as well built as the competition, I am not going to buy one...and judging by Toyota's sales numbers, I'm not alone.

By the way, when I buy a 2007 Tundra I am buying a truck that is more American than any other half ton on the market. And while the parent company may be Japanese, I don't see how that's much different than German. I mean, they were both sworn enemies in WWII... :o)

I've been driving Chrysler SUV's for years, and I am sick of giving my money to them simply because they are AMERICAN. Not anymore...they're GERMAN.

F that.

ACHTUNG!!!

Oh, sorry, as a DCX emp., I figured I would show all I know about being German. Lol.

Hey, have fun with your toy, I hope it fits under your bridge, gotta go ...trip, trop, trip, trop, trip, trop.

I saw one in person on Saturday.

Comments: The engine compartment needs cleaned up, the bed could be lowered for easier access, interior could be less blocky and more refined. Otherwise it's an ok truck.

local://upfiles/284/0BD3FB2BA9EE4D15A6A6E88CD80C10B9.jpg

me, myself, i personally dont like em. if youve ever seen the price tag for one it s 35-40 grand and its not even a 3/4 ton truck! so if i was to spend that amount of cash, id have to blow it on a ram! although the new sierras have a real nice interior.

WHAT DO U GOT TO SAY ABOUT CHRYSLER LMURRAY ITS AMERICAN NOW!!!THATS MORE THEN WHAT YOU CAN SAY ABOUT YOUR PRECIOUS MANIPULATIVE TOYOTA WITH ITS BIG BAD FOUR STAR THE A.K.A(THE DODGE RAM WANNABE) TUNDRA! and you think toyota is more american then the big three???what kind of **** are you peddleing??the big three companies all had domestic content percentages in excess of 70% toyota came in below 50% because nearly half of the vehicles it sells in our country are imported!!from japan!!you know the country that that bombed pearl harbor!!!toyota employs34,000 people in america the big three 400,000 people in america!the big three build 7 out of every 10 cars made in our country the big three purchase almost 80% of all u.s auto parts the big three impact more then 7 million jobs in america toyota and all of the other foreign companies combined impact less then 2 million jobs. its a fact son!!and we all know toyota cheats with its unfair weak yen!!oh yea you should read the details about that it will make u ****ing sick!!!i hate toyota and i dont care to tell you or anybody eles for that matter **** that you say!!no **** TOYOTA!!!!

Looking at the sales figures the new Tundra doesn't seem like much of a threat. Throw in some faulty engines already and I'll stick with Dodge thank you very much. Also, dakota rampage you really need some paragraphs and punctuation in there man...

He does need some punctuation but he does make some great points!:D

Agreed!!

ITS AMERICAN NOW!!!

American made, but everything else like general profits and parts profits are going straight to Japan. It's all a marketing ploy, a feel better so we accept that it's an American vehicle.

Wow.... As a first time Dodge ram owner, I'm more than happy with my 06 2500 Ram. On paper and out in the real world it is the best truck for me to own. The new GM trucks and Toyota's were not on the market when I gave up on Ford. ( all I would drive )

I don't like the looks of the 3rd gen Ram, It's crazy, but true, the 2nd generation and the older 95 to 96 style was the best looking pick ups on the road, but I was stuck in the Ford grove back than, now a lot has changed.

First, its stupid to have blind faith in a brand if the bacon is not cooked to your standards, Dodge has it's equal share of issues but I'm convinced their turning the tide where as Ford is a trip to the toilet.

Car guieds, consumer reports, car and driver, ect are not bad publications to read, I found all the information booth possitive and negative in reseraching my trip to the Dodge dealer.

If some of you are so anti honda or toyota, than please throw out your Jappenase made appliances, TV and sterio equpment, you have to be fair when baised.

My 2nd car is now a 02 Toyota Seina mini van, I swore I would never drive a mini van, but the time came to replace my girl friend tried and true and breaking 95 Voyager mini van.

I really like my new ( used toyota )

Dodge did invent the mini van but thier Caravans are only the best of a bad lot of the three mini vans.

Toyota build quality is excellant and if Dodge or Ford or Gm are so great, than thats all you would see on the road, not true now.

Now if I had to buy a new gas powerd truck, it's Toyota vers GM.

ORIGINAL: ViperGTS

ITS AMERICAN NOW!!!

American made, but everything else like general profits and parts profits are going straight to Japan. It's all a marketing ploy, a feel better so we accept that it's an American vehicle.
100% Correct!!!!

The blind don't see that they (who buy into this ploy by Japanese) that they are the ones who are and have been putting our COUNTRY out of business, and out of AMERICAN MADE jobs. By buying that Sony, Mitsubishi, or Toshiba stereo and TV25-30 years ago; you have put American Companies such as RCA, Zenith, Curtis Mathis out of business. Sure their names may still be around, but they were bought out by the Japanese companies; because you buy their product over our own. Don't put all the blame on thethose companiesCEO's; the majority of the blame goes the AMERICAN CONSUMER! To save a buck; you took the job right out from under your families feet.

ORIGINAL: Midnight

The Tundra is still a weak little car is a trucks clothing... lol

Compare them in truck categories and the Ram wins... lol


Resale - Toyota
Reliability - Toyota
Owner Satisfaction - Toyota
HP - Toyota
Torque - Toyota
Towing Capacity - Toyota
Price - Dodge
Warranty - Dodge

Yah...so ummm....yah...if by "Ram Wins" you mean, "Ram Loses", then sure....Ram wins.

ORIGINAL: shimmy

ORIGINAL: Midnight

The Tundra is still a weak little car is a trucks clothing... lol

Compare them in truck categories and the Ram wins... lol


Resale - Toyota
Reliability - Toyota
Owner Satisfaction - Toyota
HP - Toyota
Torque - Toyota
Towing Capacity - Toyota
Price - Dodge
Warranty - Dodge

Yah...so ummm....yah...if by "Ram Wins" you mean, "Ram Loses", then sure....Ram wins.




I have yet to figure out why people overvalue Toyota so much. My friend recently sold an old beat-up Tacoma for $5500, everyone with any sense told him he was way too high but some Toyota loyalist actually forked over the cash for it. I've had quite a few friends with tacomas, my 95 Chevy was more reliable and more solidly built than any of them, as was my grandfather's 96 Ram and even my friend's 91 Ford. The tundra wasn't even a real fullsize before this latest version (if you don't believe me go park it front bumper to front bumper with a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge fullsize and look at the width difference.

I have actually read a car review article in Consumer Reports where they faulted nearly every other brand for a feature they felt was lacking in the interior. Camry was missing this same feature, yet they didn't even mention it. Since then I don't rely on CR for anything. My best friend recently purchased a new Chevy, before he did he test drove all the new full sizes before he did. He actually thought the Tundra was ok but it didn't stand out from any of the others for him and similarly equipped was almost $10,000 more than any of the other trucks.

Towing Capacity, well let's see, Tundra doesn't even offer a HD model, enough said.

I would question the reliability, as I said above from what I've seen it's not any better. My grandfather's 96 ram was worked very hard from day one, the guy he sold it to is almost up to 300k on the original engine and told my grandfather it's the best truck he's ever had (he uses it up in northern Maine, if you don't know the area it's rough up there, logging country)

In the half-tons Toyota has it for HP/Tq right now, let's wait and see how many more engines blow due to crankshaft failure ;)

ORIGINAL: Dakota_24

ORIGINAL: ViperGTS

ITS AMERICAN NOW!!!

American made, but everything else like general profits and parts profits are going straight to Japan. It's all a marketing ploy, a feel better so we accept that it's an American vehicle.
100% Correct!!!!

The blind don't see that they (who buy into this ploy by Japanese) that they are the ones who are and have been putting our COUNTRY out of business, and out of AMERICAN MADE jobs. By buying that Sony, Mitsubishi, or Toshiba stereo and TV25-30 years ago; you have put American Companies such as RCA, Zenith, Curtis Mathis out of business. Sure their names may still be around, but they were bought out by the Japanese companies; because you buy their product over our own. Don't put all the blame on thethose companiesCEO's; the majority of the blame goes the AMERICAN CONSUMER! To save a buck; you took the job right out from under your families feet.
He was speaking of Chrysler being American made now.

My friend just bought a 94 toyota truck with a little 4 banger/5spd for $300 bucks with a broken timing chain. Its a nice little truck.