RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 1:58:33 AM
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SHAPman
Posts: 1409
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From: Warren MI. Home to Rams and Dakotas
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I'm just messing with you!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BadStratRT
GO BLUE!!
BIG TEN RULES!!!!
Lost your job yet? Keep buying foreign, you will.
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 3:07:25 AM
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highrevr/tflea
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I make 17 dollars an hour and can barely afford to live right now...but in a lot of peoples cases its better to save money then spend it...setting aside money and becoming "financially independant" is the key to owning and having anything you want. And that is true anywhere you go. There are tricks and ways to own 600,000 dollar houses and such. Like what I have in the works is property loan and 30000 dollars worth of materials. =50000 dollars. (Built by myself and family members) Total SQ FT=3,300. Time invested=2-3months, Property value...well how many 3300 sq ft houses do you see under 6 figures new? Thats a good 3 years worth of saving with minimum overtime put in. And living off any mishaps that come up. there may be some additional costs but thats what you have to prepare for. Its a nice thought and easier said then done, but it can be Done.
Anyhow I would have to say CEOs and all EXECs are greedy...and seeing as the gov't has policies set for the bankruptcies about to happen, they should require a base salary for all executives based off of their current production figures until they they actually start making money per their annual financial reports. FORD didnt have to have all this happen BTW. They could have played it safe but they are selfish. If they cared for the autoworker at all they would have seen this coming and did something about it...but 30000 jobs later......and millions in their pocket later...
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 11:01:52 AM
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2coff
Posts: 963
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From: So Cal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nickoman01
now when you are cutting down the CEO's who actually make the company work and operate, you are being anti American workers. those people matter alot, and they are American workers. stop trashing them because you are to much of a failure at life to become one.
Yes I want Americans to have good paying jobs they can raise there family's on so I'm anti-American worker. But you want them fired and to have the CEO running the Company into the ground to make more money. WOW that's retarded thinking at it's finest. Then you want to trash me as a failure Ha, ha ha. You could only dream of having my job, house and money I make. Heck my wife is a stay at home mom, do you have any Idea how hard it is to have a one person income for a family? I bet your ignorant mind has no clue.
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 11:19:50 AM
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bigddy9
Posts: 1099
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From: Sterling Hts, MI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jgralka
quote:
You show me one line worker for teh Big 3 that is "barely feeding his family". Theses are people who make 50K working 40 hours a week....some are over 100K with overtime. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but stop making it sound like the line workers are some poor shlubs who are defaulting on mortgages. I personally know of several line workers who live in houses that cost upwards of 600K....and I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but 10% of profits go to CEO's? I think you are seriously exaggerating that number.
Right a guy making 50k a year is living in a 600k house. Please. I can barley afford my house with my "50k" a year working for Chrysler. And my wife works as well. There is no way I could afford my house and my cars without her working. SO what does 50k buy you... About a 150k house and maybe a 15k car. Wow the extravagance.
Joe
I know 3 people who have done it. The houses they bought cost in teh mid to upper 500's, in Rochester Hills. They lived in very modest homes in Warren and Sterling Heights for years and saved enought money to put huge down payments on very expensive houses. But they did it while working on the line. Lots of overtime helped, but they work on the line and bought those houses. There is no need to get defensive with me, I actually agree with you on most of what you say. The line workers shouldn't be the ones loosing their jobs because the designers and engineers can't seem to build a decent car. Management shouldn't be getting bonuses for pushing out poorly built cars, but teh UAW shouldn't build teh cars poorly in teh first place. Quality is as much a part of the plant as it is part of the design.
Danny
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 3:37:28 PM
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deranged
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2coff
quote:
ORIGINAL: nickoman01
now when you are cutting down the CEO's who actually make the company work and operate, you are being anti American workers. those people matter alot, and they are American workers. stop trashing them because you are to much of a failure at life to become one.
Yes I want Americans to have good paying jobs they can raise there family's on so I'm anti-American worker. But you want them fired and to have the CEO running the Company into the ground to make more money. WOW that's retarded thinking at it's finest. Then you want to trash me as a failure Ha, ha ha. You could only dream of having my job, house and money I make. Heck my wife is a stay at home mom, do you have any Idea how hard it is to have a one person income for a family? I bet your ignorant mind has no clue.
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Sorry 2coff don't know what happened here, but anyway:
I don't know why you guys continually argue with Nick on these matters? He evidently gets a kick out of pushing peoples hot button. His side of an arguement is always inflammatory and never has any logic to it and when confronted with factual and logical reasoning to counter his arguement always resorts to personal attacks. This is a true indicator of his maturity level which most people have outgrown by highschool.
Nick, I'm sorry but not everyone is content being a Wal- Mart employee making 7-12 dollars an hour. If you are that's cool, just don't expect anyone else here to think that's all the American worker deserves. We are a single income family as well and I'm a blue collar worker and damned proud of it. I will make probably $45k this year and I won't apologize to anyone for it. It is MY HARD WORK that got me a decent wage. I'm NOT bilking the poor company out of anything, I AM doing a good job and they recognize that effort. I'm also just a lowly highschool grad, you know one of those guys who should be settling for less! AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN SON!
I've tried to humor him, but it just doesn't work when I keep seeing the personal attacks. Maybe we need an Administative review? Or maybe we should all be a bunch of name calling punks like back in junior high.
< Message edited by deranged -- 1/24/2006 3:45:08 PM >
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 6:20:44 PM
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dubvipers
Posts: 1239
Joined: 10/19/2005
From: ICT, DubK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: highrevr/tflea
Thats a lot of jobs for restructuring...I cant help but think ford is going to poopoo more and more.
yea, today's headline said ford laid off 30,000 workers. now that's alot. but they did it only for profit. Wtf? stupid ford guy did everything henry ford did, turn down the people who worked for you. back then when the dodge brothers worked for him, he took all the credit. haha, some b!tch he is
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/24/2006 8:54:15 PM
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dustyloins
Toys For Tots Fund Contributor
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Didn't DCX announce some layoffs today, or did I dream that????
Dusty
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 12:09:35 AM
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SHAPman
Posts: 1409
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Warren MI. Home to Rams and Dakotas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bigddy9
I know 3 people who have done it. The houses they bought cost in teh mid to upper 500's, in Rochester Hills. They lived in very modest homes in Warren and Sterling Heights for years and saved enought money to put huge down payments on very expensive houses. But they did it while working on the line. Lots of overtime helped, but they work on the line and bought those houses. There is no need to get defensive with me, I actually agree with you on most of what you say. The line workers shouldn't be the ones loosing their jobs because the designers and engineers can't seem to build a decent car. Management shouldn't be getting bonuses for pushing out poorly built cars, but teh UAW shouldn't build teh cars poorly in teh first place. Quality is as much a part of the plant as it is part of the design.
Danny
Sorry Danny I was just a bit steamed by other posts in the thread. So yes it is possible, but very rare indeed. Especially now that the housing market in metro detroit has started to tank. But hey I'm sure all of these layoffs have nothing to due with that.
Your last line is 100 percent correct. But here is the problem. Management dictates how much work is put on a job station. They tend to overload the job stations. So that is about 80 percent of the reason junk goes down the line. Yes there is some chaff as well, but if I don't have enough time to complete the job and management knows its a problem but doesn't resolve it. Then it falls on them. Not the overloaded line worker. Give me the tools to build a world class vehicle, and I will build them all day long.
Yes Jim 6000 white collar. Mostly in Germany though. Thats a first.
Joe
< Message edited by jgralka -- 1/25/2006 12:10:44 AM >
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ORIGINAL: BadStratRT
GO BLUE!!
BIG TEN RULES!!!!
Lost your job yet? Keep buying foreign, you will.
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 3:28:19 PM
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97 3.5 Intrepid
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This whole issue probably could have been avoided if we would have drilled in Alaska when it was suggested during 2002-2003, and we would have more jobs that would satisfy those of you who prefer union jobs as opposed to jobs requiring a college education. $50K is plenty of money to live off of if you practice good money management. My father was able to buy a house, raise my brother and myself and send us through college, allow his wife to go to college and do nothing after spending a lot of his money on it, and live a comfortable life style on a similar yearly pay and he has no debts. He only bought one car by financing and vowed never to do it again, and all the others he bought by a down payment, most were brand new. I have seen families live just as comfortably with less money than that.
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 3:31:07 PM
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ViperGTS
Posts: 14468
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Maryland
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quote:
now when you are cutting down the CEO's who actually make the company work and operate, you are being anti American workers. those people matter alot, and they are American workers. stop trashing them because you are to much of a failure at life to become one.
Not true. CEO's are a major problem. They take up a lot of the company's profit.
-Matt-
< Message edited by ViperGTS -- 1/26/2006 2:44:18 PM >
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 6:10:55 PM
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2coff
Posts: 963
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From: So Cal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 97 3.5 Intrepid
This whole issue probably could have been avoided if we would have drilled in Alaska when it was suggested during 2002-2003, and we would have more jobs that would satisfy those of you who prefer union jobs as opposed to jobs requiring a college education. $50K is plenty of money to live off of if you practice good money management. My father was able to buy a house, raise my brother and myself and send us through college, allow his wife to go to college and do nothing after spending a lot of his money on it, and live a comfortable life style on a similar yearly pay and he has no debts. He only bought one car by financing and vowed never to do it again, and all the others he bought by a down payment, most were brand new. I have seen families live just as comfortably with less money than that.
How can drilling in Alaska make up for Ford making ugly boring cars no one wants? I don't understand the logic.
_____________________________
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
-Benjamin Franklin
-2005 Dodge Dakota QC SLT
-2000 Chrysler Concorde LXI (stock)
-1968 Datsun pickup
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 6:12:10 PM
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BadStratRT
Posts: 20743
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its ok, most people dont understand yours either...
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/25/2006 8:57:00 PM
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97 3.5 Intrepid
Posts: 1397
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2coff
quote:
ORIGINAL: 97 3.5 Intrepid
This whole issue probably could have been avoided if we would have drilled in Alaska when it was suggested during 2002-2003, and we would have more jobs that would satisfy those of you who prefer union jobs as opposed to jobs requiring a college education. $50K is plenty of money to live off of if you practice good money management. My father was able to buy a house, raise my brother and myself and send us through college, allow his wife to go to college and do nothing after spending a lot of his money on it, and live a comfortable life style on a similar yearly pay and he has no debts. He only bought one car by financing and vowed never to do it again, and all the others he bought by a down payment, most were brand new. I have seen families live just as comfortably with less money than that.
How can drilling in Alaska make up for Ford making ugly boring cars no one wants? I don't understand the logic.
No offense, but have you ever taken economic courses? Economic courses help explain issues like this. If the drilling in Alaska was done back in 2002-2003, the supply of crude oil would go up, which would reduce the price of a barrel oil. The drilling in Alaska would create new jobs for people because people have to do the labor and control the machines. The increase in jobs in a more rural area like Alaska would mean a increased demand for housing (which helps the construction businesses), increase to the local businesses, and an increase in demand for automobiles that are good in the snow, like SUVs. These increases lead to more jobs created as a result of having money poured into an area that didn't have this income before hand.
Now besides the possible increase of SUV sales in that area, having a greater supply of oil and a likely additional refinery needed and built as a result of the increased supply of oil available would have prevented the gas prices from being as expense as they are now. The area where Ford offered what is called a superior product is in the SUV market. The history of the U.S. market shows that people did want Ford trucks and SUVs, just not their cars. The result would have been Ford not losing quite as many SUV sales because the cost of fuel would not be quite as high. The SUV bubble would have probably burst regardless but the lower prices would have cushioned the blow. Ford would have still realized that they needed to be more competitive in the car market like they do now, and they would have made the new cars they just introduced. Now the main difference would be that they would not have lost near the market share that they did in the last few years as a result of high gas prices and which means profits would not have dropped quite as far and as a result they would not need to shut down as many or possibly any factories.
Now this is not the only reason why Ford is having problems. It is a fact that their marketing has sucked badly, their cars are ugly and out of touch, their factories need updated technology to be more efficient, and the worker's insurance is higher than the Japanese manufactures' insurance as well. What I am saying is if we would have drilled in Alaska, more oil drilling jobs would have been created, local businesses would have received a nice boost, and this could have cushioned the blow that Ford took and things might have turned out better.
Now does this clear things up for you, 2coff? If you need a more detailed explanation, I would be happy to explain this to you.
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RE: 'Black Monday' looms over Ford's future - 1/26/2006 10:06:43 AM
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2coff
Posts: 963
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: So Cal
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Yes I've taken economics and got an A+, my teacher also use one of my essays for an example for future classes. Here's a novel idea. Use Ethanol, it can be made and refined here in the U.S. and create way more jobs and money for the U.S. then your Alaska idea could ever dream of. And we would stop using foreign energy all at the same time. You idea is a short term sullution to a long term problem. In less then 10 years Alaska will be out of oil and we would be right back were we started, accually worse.
_____________________________
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
-Benjamin Franklin
-2005 Dodge Dakota QC SLT
-2000 Chrysler Concorde LXI (stock)
-1968 Datsun pickup
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