I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but...
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I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/13/2005 9:26:37 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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My little brother had an 87 Daytona Shelby Z in HS... yes, lucky bastard got a Z as his first car. I, on the other hand, started out with a barely running 84 Dodge Aries. Anyways, Turbo II, 5 spd. He put a ton of money into the car. Paid $1500 for the car and had it painted, replaced the tranny, new axles, motor rebuild, new rebuilt turbo, etc. Well, he run the piss out of it (constantly dumping the clutch to smoke the tires, drag racing, etc) and that's the main reason he had to have all the new parts. Anyways, he got sick of borrowing money to pay for trannies and motor rebuilds so he just parked it after the last motor rebuild. Why? Well, he had some hillbilly mechanic rebuild it and I think he got in over his head. Took him about 2 months to do it and he kept having to borrow my brother's shop manuals. When he got it finished it never did run right. The car would run but ran really rich and wouldn't run decent enough to even barely spool the turbo up. My brother got tired of it and parked it behind my dad's house.
That was about 2-3 years ago. Now my brother hasn't even glanced at the car since then and my dad is tired of it sitting there. Told me to part it out and split the proceeds or fix it and drive it and he'll sign the title over to me (title is in my dad's name because my dad bought the car and paid for 90% of the parts and rebuilds). I'm wondering what could be the problem besides the timing belt jumping a tooth or two? Moving the distributor to one extreme or the other doesn't help much at all. I always told my brother to try to fix the timing on the belt and he just never tried it. I think one mechanic around here offered to check and fix it but it was going to be a couple of hundred bucks! And it's got a new belt so it shouldn't include having to replace that. But before I drive this thing to my house (if it still runs at all now) and take up what little space I have, I want to see if there's any other things it could be. I know a car running rich and rough could be a million things but what are the most common problems? I don't think it ever ran right since it was rebuilt so I'm just kind of hoping the guy that done it was an idiot and couldn't set the timing right.
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/14/2005 5:02:47 PM
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pacifica_kid
Posts: 35
Joined: 10/12/2005
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first thing go to your dads and do a test on car turn the key on off on off on and watch the engine light and count the blinks .like if it blinks once and has a space then two times thats 12. do that and it should give a code to tell what is wroung,,,,
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/15/2005 5:46:41 AM
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Sanguinius
Posts: 61
Joined: 12/8/2005
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For free I would take it and try fixing it I mean it's a SHELBY!!! I could only DREAM of having that kind of car. (Though I might be able to get my hands on a '88 Conquest if I'm lucky) What's the worst that could happen you work on the car for a bit can't manage to get it running and e-bay it to someone that can? I mean for free it seems like a win win situation. I'd jump on it.
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/15/2005 10:40:41 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Well, I'll try the codes thing. My dad pulled the battery and kept it inside for the last couple of years so will it still have any codes stored since it ran? Or will I have to get it started/running and then let it store new codes (if they are any)?
If it's running that bad it should be throwing codes like crazy but I don't think the CEL ever came on. Maybe that's normal.
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/15/2005 4:27:21 PM
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Sanguinius
Posts: 61
Joined: 12/8/2005
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If the cell came on for even a second then it will be stored in the computer. I'm not sure if the codes will still be there if the battery was removed but if you start it and run it again it should give you the codes again. And if you ARE going to sell it how much? (LOL sorry like I said I could only dream of owning something like that...)
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/16/2005 9:38:54 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Well, I talked to my brother and I offered to pay him for it (he lost his job this week so I felt bad) and he said right now he'd take a couple of hundred for it, from me. If I sold it, I'm not sure what I'd ask for it. Guess it depends on how bad it is. If it's just the timing problem and it's a simple fix and the car runs good I wouldn't sell it, but drive it. The only other thing I worry about is he said that it was leaking oil somewhere, which is odd since it was rebuilt a few weeks before it was parked. He doesn't know much about cars though so it may not be that bad. He doesn't really look at cars when there's a problem, he just takes it to the mechanic or parks it. I at least have a look under the hood and see what is the problem.
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/16/2005 7:29:36 PM
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Sanguinius
Posts: 61
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Could suck though depending where it's leaking oil/burning oil. I used to have a Plymouth Colt that took 3 quarts every time I shut the engine off. Didn't use a drop while it was running but as soon as that engine shut off...
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/18/2005 11:48:11 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Okay, I went and looked at the car yesterday. Doesn't look too bad except for some mold on the sides, but should come off pretty easy.
The battery wasn't in the car so I pulled my Durango up next to it and ran jumper cables from the Durango to the battery cables on the Shelby (Durango still running). I cranked it over and it was turning WAY too slow to fire. I've never seen a motor turn this slow. If you were watching the crank pulley you could literally count one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two, one-thousand-three before it's make a complete rotation. It WAS continuous though and I never heard the solenoid just click. I remember when the car was last drove it never did spin really quick like a normal car, but it wasn't this slow. I pulled a plug and let the wire on it to check for spark while I was at it -- it produced a fat blue spark. I put 2 gallons of gas in it to make sure it had enough gas. I didn't bring many tools with me because I really didn't expect it do what it did.
What could that be? Starter going out? My cheap $5 battery cables not giving it enough juice? The car is sitting on a hill so I didn't want to jack it up unless I have to (to pull the starter). My dad said that my cheap, thin, battery cables might not be giving it enough juice but I didn't know if that would be right since we're not talking about a big diesel or something. I thought not having a battery might screw it up but wasn't sure on that either.
I appreciate all your guys' help!
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/19/2005 9:12:20 PM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Thanks for the tips!
It doesn't look the interior is molded (the A/C and heating ducts I'm not so sure of though) but it's mainly ths sides of the exterior. They put a tarp on it and it wasn't the breathable kind so the parts that were up against the paint left a greenish tint of mold. It rubbed off pretty easy with my finger though.
I'm going to pull the battery from my old Toyota pickup and put it in the Daytona and try again. I don't want to buy a battery for it unless I know it's going to run and won't need a lot of other parts. Someone I know mentioned something scary that I hope is unlikely. He said that when a car sits for years it may rust/gunk up internally and the slow starting could be friction from all that (meaning I'd need a new motor!). I really hope this isn't right and it's just a starter or battery or cable (corrosion, etc) problem.
I'll keep you guys posted as I go. I'm sure once I do get it started I'll be asking more questions.
Oh, one last thing, this is thinking a little past the starting problem, but when I said it used to run rich and all that -- I saw that the lower turbo hose (coming from turbo and going to the bottom intercooler inlet) has a crack that has turned into a 1/4" wide gash. Surely my brother wouldn't seen this if it happened before the car was parked, but if not, what would this do for a running car?
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/20/2005 1:57:40 AM
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Sanguinius
Posts: 61
Joined: 12/8/2005
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All right first... Good to hear that the interior is good to go. Being plastic and metal the mold should srcub right off on the exterior. Now for the starting problem... It IS a possibility of there being rust in the cylinders. I'd say think about possibly getting some type of cleaner to spray down the spark plug hole and turn the engine a few times without the plugs in to try to clean them up a bit. If there IS rust it's a 50/50 shot you MAY or MAY NOT need to replace the engine. I would actually go for a rebuild because of the block that it is. But also being that it was rebuilt recently before being parked... And I also thing the rust thing is unlikely. I have a '64 Dodge 440 with the 318 Wide block in it and she sat for over 3 years. I put a little gas in her and cranked her right up. (Not for too long there's no alternator on the car right now LOL). Where you have to worry about rust after sitting is the gas tank. I WOULD recommend once you get it somewhere to work on to take the tank off get it cleaned and relined and possibly even consider changing the fuel pump at the same time that way things there are ALL straight. That or just spring for a new gas tank. Now for your last question. I guess it has a possibility of causing it though I'm not a turbo expert. I would still change the pipe for the simple fact that if there's a hole there it my not be sending all the air it should be to where it needs which in turn COULD cause a rich condition... I dunno help me out here turbo people... I'm thinking if the turbo is sucking the air in past the MAF the computer senses the amount sucked in and expects it to all go to the engine therefore compensates with enough fuel. Now all that air ISN'T making it to the engine so there is TOO much fuel for the cylinders? Am I right?
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/20/2005 11:02:18 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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I hadn't thought of the gas tank and rust -- glad you brought that up!
With the turbo thing, I think you're right where the computer could compensate and make it run richer. I'm hoping the problem with the car running rich is that easy.
Hopefully I can look at it today try again and see what happens. I sat in the car and just shifted gears and was thinking Wow, I HAVE to get this car fixed up. It's too nice and too sporty (and too cheap ;) ) to let it sit here and rot.
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/21/2005 2:59:16 AM
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87Indy500
Posts: 269
Joined: 3/16/2004
From: Gettysburg, Pa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sorny
Oh, one last thing, this is thinking a little past the starting problem, but when I said it used to run rich and all that -- I saw that the lower turbo hose (coming from turbo and going to the bottom intercooler inlet) has a crack that has turned into a 1/4" wide gash. Surely my brother wouldn't seen this if it happened before the car was parked, but if not, what would this do for a running car?
The cracked intercooler hose will not cause it to run rich, but will obviously cause poor boost levels....
If I where you, I would start by taking a close look at vacuum harness. Since it sounds like there has been some "shade tree" mechanic working on it in the past, chances are that he gave up on trying to figure them out. Usually (but not always) a rich running condition can be traced back to a vacuum leak, or an unplugged map sensor. These cars are VERY dependant on a fully functioning vacuum system. I'm almost willing to bet that you'll find that the car is experiencing vacuum issues....
Its defiantly a car worth saving if you can....
Good luck.
< Message edited by 87Indy500 -- 12/21/2005 3:05:41 AM >
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RE: I could get a free 87 Shelby Z.... but... - 12/21/2005 11:52:07 AM
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sorny
Posts: 10
Joined: 10/11/2005
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Thanks for the tip on the vacuum hoses! I hadn't thought about that at all. What you said about the cracked hose not making full boost is another issue though. My brother said that not only did the car run rich but it'd never boost much at all. I thought that it might be because it was running so rich, but the hose could be that problem.
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Good luck and keep me posted (Looks like I'm getting a project of my own anyways '88 Conquest TSi Turbo 
YAY)
... lol Well good luck and let me know what happens. I'll try to help as much as possible to get that car up and running again.
