RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/2/2007 8:48:56 AM
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HankL
Posts: 2719
Joined: 8/20/2005
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an old test on a Ram that might be of interest,
but if I was to do this test again
I would use two trucks following one another
one without the fan, one stock
because the small gain (3%)
demands careful testing to get a reliable result
and even a small change in wind
can throw the result off
----
Following up on the air dam on/off MPG tests I did on Monday the 23rd,
today I did a MPG test run at a cruise-controlled 70 mph over the same stretch
of Interstate 40 without my radiator fan.
I filled up at the same gas station, set the air conditioning the same, and
the weather was nearly the same - 70-79 degrees. Today there was a 10-15 mph
wind coming from the west (more on that later).
The truck was about 4 lbs heavier because I was carrying the big 1 7/16 inch
wrench, hammer, and small 1/2 inch flare wrench I used to remove the fan
bolts.
By the Exxon gas pump I used 11.105 gallons of 87 octane.
By my (corrected) truck's odometer I went 218.5 miles.
MPG at 70 mph without the radiator fan was 19.68
Compared to 18.94 MPG on Monday's test with fan,
this represents about a 3.8% gain.
The Oztrip meter results from measuring fuel injector on-time were similar,
showing a consumption of 11.6 gallons over 218.7 miles
for a fan-less mpg of 19.34
On Monday with the fan the Oztrip had showed 18.86 mpg, or a gain of 2.5%
When I first started this test run at about 10 am, the Oztrip meter showed
surprisingly good MPG - about 20 - so I had high hopes for what fan removal
was going to do.
Unfortunately, I found that part of the gain on the southeast bound leg of the
trip was due to the 10-15 mph winds at my back.
When I turned around at Wilmington NC and headed back, the average mpg
steadily dropped as I now drove against a head wind. Looking at the Oztrip
trip computer numbers it seems I averaged 19.96 on the southeast bound drive
with the favorable tailwind, and 18.7 driving northwest with the unfavorable
headwind. This was the 1st time I had bothered to watch for what winds do to
mpg. Looks like they can raise/lower mpg by 1.6 even at a "calm" 10-15 mph
level.
As to the temperature of the coolant without the fan - it stayed very steady
at 180 degrees during the MPG test run even with the air conditioner on.
When I slowed to a stop at the end of the trip while turning back into the gas
station, the temp gauge indicated a momentary rise to about 195.
I actually took the fan off late yesterday afternoon and drove around without
it to experiment. As long as the truck kept moving the temp gauge stayed at
180. I parked the truck and let it idle for about 10 minutes. This raised
the temp gauge to about 210-220. I then put on the heater full blast to see
if this would lower the temperature back to 180. It did not - the temp stayed
the same and neither fell nor raised any more. I then drove the truck again.
Within 1 mile the temp had dropped to 200 and within another mile it was back
at 180 degrees F.
The fan on a 5.9V8 Magnum is kind of funky looking. It has 5 blades, but 2 of
them are bunched together and the other 3 are spaced out normally. There is a
stiffening wire embedded in the blades. It takes less than 15 minutes to take
this fan off, but if the fan had been made in two parts that split - you would
not have to take the big nut off the fan clutch - and the fan could be removed
in 5 minutes.
Instead of buying a 36 mm wrench {1.417 inches}, I cut two strips of metal
from a tin can. These strips turned out to be 0.010 inches thick. I taped
two such home-made 'shims' to the inside faces of my 1 7/16 wrench {1.4375}
which closed the opening up to 1.4375 - 0.020 = 1.4175 This worked fine to
loosen the clutch-to-waterpump nut. Make the shims 'fish hook' shaped and you
can tape them in place from the backside.
I may try to drive without the fan in city driving a bit to see what happens,
but I am carrying it with me just in case I have trouble.
I still have the Evan Cooling 'waterless' NPG coolant in my engine. This
won't boil over until 370 degrees so I have some safety factor that a normal
antifreeze would not have.
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/24/2007 2:43:27 PM
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fyjimophreak
Posts: 10
Joined: 2/28/2007
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Hey Guys. It's been a while since I've been on the forum, but I finally found a kit to install an electric fan on the Durango. It's less than the $450 for the viper fan swap only costing $319 for the Flex-a-Lite kit. It's at www.stylinconcepts.com and just search for "electric cooling fan". I didn't buy it, but I thought someone else might like to know about it.
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Alex
2006 Chevy Silverado Z71
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/24/2007 4:40:00 PM
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IndyDurango
Posts: 762
Joined: 6/24/2006
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2000+ Durangos have an electric fan and the clutch fan. The electric runs when the AC is on or when it gets VERY hot. Why couldn't one add a temp switch at say 185 degrees to the stock electric fan instead of waiting on a hot situation or the AC being on. Then with the fan on coming on auto and controlled via the temp switch at 185 (assuming you already have a 180 stat) why couldn't that be all that is needed allowing the removal of the clutch fan. Think that would work instead of also using the clutch fan or instead of replacing the stocker with a Viper fan with out the clutch fan? I'd like to use what I have and just add a temp switch and take off the clutch fan if it would work. Thoughts?
IndyD
< Message edited by IndyDurango -- 3/24/2007 4:48:05 PM >
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/24/2007 5:11:15 PM
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Mean Green
Posts: 3189
Joined: 6/22/2006
From: Reno, NV
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Ths stock e-fan we have can't do an adequate job of cooling on it's own but if you want to go the cheaper route of doing an e-fan swap then get a flexalite fan. It doesn't pull as many CFM's but will still get the job done for half the price of the viper fan upgrade.
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2000 Durango 5.9L SLT+ Flowmaster 40 "Custom" Ram Air 31" BFG AT T/A KO's Bilstein Shocks Hidden Hitch Sirius Satelite Radio E-fan conversion Smittybilt brushguard SSU's
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/27/2007 8:51:50 AM
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Kensai
Posts: 1669
Joined: 12/30/2003
From: United States
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I can vouch for what mean green said. When my clutch fan went out, my D was hovering around 210-220 on a given 100+ degree heat with the oem E-fan running. I know for a fact now that the factory programmed a fail-safe mode on the PCM to save the engine when it gets hot. Because when my D is running at this temperature, my performance is cut in half and MPG's sux. After replacing the clutch fan, now I am back to norm temps around 195 and D is running fine now. I agree with Indy, I would love the E-Fan to kick in much earlier, at least kickin within 5-10 degrees over operating temperature.
Now the bad's of the clutch fans, my aftermarket replacement, it is loud! very loud. It roars during cold starts and after driving a few miles, it will eventually slip and then quiet down. But when the clutch is locked, I can tell, I lost a few extra ponies when I need some power. The first replacement clutch was bad as it was locked for most of the time no matter what temp it is outside. 2nd aftermarket clutch is doing what it suppose to now. But I still don't understand as my clutch is supposed to be thermostatically controlled? If so, why is it locked when it is cold and not when it is warm?
Now I regret this replacement clutch fan as it is loud at times (cannot even have a nice quiet conversation in the cabin) and draws alot of power when it is engaged. But at least it is doing its job preventing my D from overheating. Wished I was aware of the electric fan upgrades before I bought the clutch at $100.
From the looks of the flexalite fan, it almost looks like it still can have clearance to leave the OEM E-fan in place? That would be a big bonus then as I hate to lose my OEM E-fan. I rather go with two smaller push fans in the front to supplement the back OEM e-fan. But I wonder if the D's electrical system can handle the extra amperage load?
_____________________________
Black 2000 Durango 5.9 R/T
Fastman 52mm ThrottleBody
Fastman custom built Tranny
Castrol Full Syntec
OEM K&N Air filter
Monroe Reflexes
BFG Comp T/A''s
Champion IR Truck Plugs
180 Stat
Hypertech III (87 oct)
Custom Made Ram Air Intake
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/27/2007 10:20:34 AM
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fyjimophreak
Posts: 10
Joined: 2/28/2007
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Sorry, to clarify my earlier post, I was searching for an electric fan to replace the clutch fan for my 99, 5.2L Durango, which does not have a stock e-fan like your 2000's. From all the responses, I think I'm better off just leaving the clutch fan in to keep it cool as many of you have referenced an e-fan is not sufficient and it will save me a few hundred bucks. Thanks for all the help.
But to add to kensai's post, why does the clutch fan lock in when it's cold (start up) and slip more after it has heated up some?
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Alex
2006 Chevy Silverado Z71
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/27/2007 11:53:56 PM
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Kensai
Posts: 1669
Joined: 12/30/2003
From: United States
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Fyjimophreak,
In your case, you should have lots of clearance to add a electric fan between your clutch fan and the radiator. The reason why the newer D's, I think starting on 2000 models, the factory had to add a E-fan for supplement cooling when the A/C is on because there was a TSB about the A/C not cooling when the D is sitting idle. I must assume the clutch fan is not pulling enough air when idling and by adding a E-fan to assist in idle mode will address the A/C cooling problem.
_____________________________
Black 2000 Durango 5.9 R/T
Fastman 52mm ThrottleBody
Fastman custom built Tranny
Castrol Full Syntec
OEM K&N Air filter
Monroe Reflexes
BFG Comp T/A''s
Champion IR Truck Plugs
180 Stat
Hypertech III (87 oct)
Custom Made Ram Air Intake
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/28/2007 12:16:28 AM
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fyjimophreak
Posts: 10
Joined: 2/28/2007
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I assumed that was the reason for the newer versions having both fans. Thanks for the info.
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Alex
2006 Chevy Silverado Z71
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/30/2007 5:23:19 PM
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chemoman
Posts: 61
Joined: 3/30/2007
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I recently replaced my clutch fan with this http://www.performancecenter.com/products/single_product?tpcpartnumber=FLX180&category_name_sub=Electric+Fans&sf4=Universal+Electric+Fans&universal=0&sf5=Flex-A-Lite+Electric+Fans&category_name=Cooling+%26+Fans&sf6=Black+Magic+Series&color_index=0&brandname=Flex-A-Lite
As far as MPG, I bought my 99 TWD 318 D new in 98 and have NEVER gotten better that 17. We took it on a 2000 mi roundtrip recently and it jumped to 18.6. I haven't checked it in town yet, but I'm guessing that it has got to improve over the 11-12 that is has always gotten. As far as cooling and cooling the A/C condensor, I don't know yet. It hasn't gotten hot here in Texas yet, but it will. PM me later and I'll let you know. We also pull an RV and I'm hoping that the feew horses freed up without the clutch drag will be noticed. I also have pics of the install if your interested. It took me about 7 hours counting 3 trips to the hardware store for bolts. Most of that time was possitioning and repossitioning the fan and brackets prior to cutting and drilling. You only get one shot! I think had I had someone show me where it had to go and where to cut the brackets 4 hours tops.
I can't wait until summer to see how it performs. I can't believe I just said that.
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/30/2007 5:58:26 PM
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Kensai
Posts: 1669
Joined: 12/30/2003
From: United States
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For the price of the flexalite at just under $300, I would just pay the extra bucks and go with the Viper fan kit as this kit is truly a genuine Mopar parts plus it puts out more CFM's and it can come in 2 speeds so low speed for regular cooling or can auto switch to high for maximum cooling. I just don't know if it is a direct bolt on or if it still requires some retrofiting.
_____________________________
Black 2000 Durango 5.9 R/T
Fastman 52mm ThrottleBody
Fastman custom built Tranny
Castrol Full Syntec
OEM K&N Air filter
Monroe Reflexes
BFG Comp T/A''s
Champion IR Truck Plugs
180 Stat
Hypertech III (87 oct)
Custom Made Ram Air Intake
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/31/2007 3:04:25 AM
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IndyDurango
Posts: 762
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The FlexLite above flows 3300 CFM. What does the Viper flow? Both mount BEHIND the radiator right? Is that called a puller?
IndyDurango
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/31/2007 2:37:11 PM
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Mean Green
Posts: 3189
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From: Reno, NV
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I think it pulls 4000 cfm's Indy but I can't remember 100%.
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2000 Durango 5.9L SLT+ Flowmaster 40 "Custom" Ram Air 31" BFG AT T/A KO's Bilstein Shocks Hidden Hitch Sirius Satelite Radio E-fan conversion Smittybilt brushguard SSU's
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RE: Clutch fan vs electric fan - 3/31/2007 11:42:30 PM
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JJ67RS
Posts: 25
Joined: 9/23/2004
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Hey Just a little tid bit of info... yeah the fan clutches are filled with a type of oil, but their function is less about the oil inside of them as it is about the BI-metalic spring. I am not an engineer, but basically it has to do with expansion and contraction rates of the metals that make up that spring from the changes in temp, that controls how the fan spins. In my Opinion, I think you guys would be better off leaving the factory setup the way it is.. And the guy whose fiance has trouble getting hers warm, I would flush that cooling system, and check the radiator for clogs with one of those laser thermometers for hot and cold spots, there must be a clog somewhere. I understand it is cold where you live, I am in Rhode Island...and we have had many single digit days the last several winters with wind chills dipping well below 0, and I have had no problems with heat. But If you all are really out to save gas I would suggest checking out 4 things, cheapest being tire air pressure, check it regularly...#2 switch to a good full synthetic oil, i like Mobil 1, noticed a big difference, dont know exact % though...and #3 look at the type of tires you are using, if you are using aggressive soft compound tires youll never get good mileage, need a street tire... rolling resistance kills mpg's, and lastly #4 if you have exhaust leaks up front, its gonna mess with your 02 sensors creating a lean condition and causing the computer to put more fuel into the mix... well Hope this helped good luck... Jay
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2000 Dodge Durango SLT Plus, Patriot Blue, Sylvania Silverstars, Bosche Platinum +4's, Mobile 1 Full synthetic, 31-10.5/15 Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor's
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