After reading an earlier post on HHO fuel cells i decided to investigate and learn as much as i could about the subject. I went on Youtube.com and a few other sites and I believe that there is something too this stuff.
Well anyways i decided to try and build one myself, and today i gave it a go . i have built a hho cell and will test it first b4 trying it on my kota.
I will test it this week or this weekend and will keep you posted on my results. if it does not work or if if does work i will be honest. if it does work i will fit it too my dakota and give you the results.
i have an open mind and very little money invested so what the heck....its worth a try.

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sounds like fun, but I think you will just get HYDROGEN gas...

I hope i get something. my coworkers think im crazy, but my only hope is that the damn thing doesn't blow up. my goal is to develop an hho fuel cell so i don't give 80 to opec every f$%kin week. lets get some pride back in america and invent some stuff already.

Yeah we need something new instead of gas. My 5.2 is a beast on gas :(. I was lookin into this before.But I guess you can try it first :D

i would definetly be interested in the results when you get them

I also have 1 of these I am going to assemble this week and try. Let us know what you find so we can compare it to the results I get. Are you going to do the o2 mod and the map sensor controller? I know they say that these 3 things work together to get the best results. I also have been using Xylol with each fill up and have gained 2-3 mpg by just doing that, oh yeah I used my Superchips programmer on the performance setting w/the xylol and that is all I've done so far.

I guess we'll both post our results for everybody to see. Hope this stuff works.

Oh yeah I was going to tell everybody that there are a bunch of videos on YouTube from people that met with Ozzie (water4gas guy) in CA and tapped their conversations. Some of them are pretty interesting. Here is one link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKQgKlR3_Yc

Well after getting home today me and my step son went out and hooked this thing up to the battery and the results were rather interesting. At first i put it in a open glass container and hooked it up to the battery and got just a lil bit of bubbles, then i got brave and increased the amount of baking soda in the water and put it in a sealed hho cell that roughly cost me under $20.00. i ran a hose from it to a water bottle bubbler and got my bic out and lit it and low and behold it ignited a pop pop pop. BIG GRIN. So i turned the truck on and it increased about 2fold . i took the open end of the hose and put it in front of the air intake and surprisingly the engine seemed to smooth out just a bit.
So the results are in the thing works and my next move is to install it on the truck and get some real driving results.
i am a show me kind of guy so i will believewhen i see it.
oh 1 more thing i noticed that the system was getting a lil warm. anyone have any ideas on how to keep the cell cooler? im going to install the cell directly in front of the air intake box. and the bubbler is going to go behind it.
with gas at 3.59 a gallon i will try just about anything. if i get 2 more mpg or even 1 its worth it. i have video of it and i will try to get it up on you tube so keep an eye out for a new post.

how about making a how to for the rest of us??

I am still in the testing stages and when i get it down to a science i will make a detailed how to list and list of things you need to buy.

me lighting hho from cell on my 01 dakota
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGYVO_vZy5k

another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIzHrSeltQo

moe in wichita ks
there are three things to remember when working with these materals. 1. SAFETY 2. SAFETY 3 SAFETY

I have a question. Do these have to be directly hooked into the intake, or could be used as a blow-by near the air filter? Would you still have to mess with the map sensor and fool the O2 sensors as much? Just wondering.

from what i have seen most people just put them near the throttle body . just tap into it and let the engine draw the gas on demand.
i still want to do some bench testing and see what kind of amps its drawing and what the temp of the cell gets to after running for a bit.
lots of video on youtube and other sites to learn from.

I HOPE THIS WORKS

I hope it works also. I have the rest of the items i need for a full install, but i want to bench test it a bit before i put iton the truck. So far its seems to be putting out about 1 litre to 1.5 litre per minute. that seems to be the norm from a larger cell. the one i made is much smaller and doing as well or better than some larger cells with plates. i am using a helix design and it is putting out alot of hho gas. hopefully i can figure out how to use it as a benefit to all of us. if you look up a man name stan meyer he was leap years ahead of us and he was using water only to fuel his engine. i am no scientist and have no degree in any kind of scientific field. i am just a guy playing around with hho gas and trying to get better mpg.
if anyone has any questions please ask and i will give you the little knowledge i have to give you a jump start.

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ORIGINAL: craig4465

I hope it works also. I have the rest of the items i need for a full install, but i want to bench test it a bit before i put itÂ*on the truck. So far its seems to be putting out about 1 litre to 1.5 litre per minute. that seems to be the norm from a larger cell. the one i made is much smaller and doing as well or better than some larger cells with plates. i am using a helix design and it is putting out alot of hho gas. hopefully i can figure out how to use it as a benefit to all of us. if you look up a man name stan meyer he was leap years ahead of us and he was using water only to fuel his engine. i am no scientist and have no degree in any kind of scientific field. i am just a guy playing around with hho gas and trying to get better mpg.
if anyone has any questions please ask and i will give you the little knowledge i have to give you a jump start.

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Let me know how it goes, maybe I will make one for a self directed project at school....

If people with a hummers find out about this they'll go hog wild over it.

ORIGINAL: geoffb123

If people with a hummers find out about this they'll go hog wild over it.


LOL. Im sure it's been done. It's not that hard, my best bet is that the hard part will be getting the air/fuel mixture right...

Yeah thats true. But I don't care how long it takes. If it saves ANY money on gas, count me in http://www.dodgeforum.com/micons/m6.gif

yup me too, just want to know that someone else got it working first, i dont like being the guinea pig

ORIGINAL: shrpshtr325

yup me too, just want to know that someone else got it working first, i dont like being the guinea pig


The only problems I could see are detonation, because it is being compressed...

yea i think my friend tried this on his subaru but only showed minimal gains in the way of MPGs, but it was called a hydrogen generator, i think it was somthing a little different

Well i seen the price of gas today was 3.75 a gal so i got a lil bit of incentive and went out too the garage and installed the hho cell . first thing that happened was i burnt up a 15 amp fuse, so i put a 20 amp fuse in and i melted the casing on the fuse holder. so i got out some very heavy wire like the one you would wire an amp with and
put a 20 in it. seemed to help for the time being.
i was at my local watering hole and this guy was talking to me and he wanted to see it work well i took him outside and pulled the hose off after the bubbler and lit it up...KABOOOOOM. it blew the lid of the bubbler. talk about proving it works , it sounded like someone lit a m80 off.. well anyways no harm no foul, and mind you it only ran for about 30 seconds when i did that stunt(note to self.. dont do that again). but it was impressive.

I did notice after running it for a few minutes that i was getting water out of the tail pipe, but no water is getting into the throttle body.
i am still worried about the heat that it generates and have no idea how many amps it pulling.
i measured the gas output and it was 600ml in 45 seconds, so i figured about a lil less than 1 liter per minute.

i have a new design im working on and want to build it this weekend i hope to double the output of hho.

Trail and error is the first step. Glad your ok though.

Most of the ones I've read about have some sort of flash back valve to prevent your little explosion from happening. Glad no one was hurt though. Keep up the good work and keep us informed.

i want to be able too see how many amps the unit is pulling. i have a multimeter but it does not have an amp reader at least i cant find it. so my question is is there some one who has a amp meter or be able to guide me to a place that sells them cheap.

try radio shack, they sell alot of that stuff, i have one, but i cant part with it as it is my only one(mine came from my dad at some point) if not radio shack try any electronics store

I have made a few changes in the design in the cell and have got some promising results.
I was getting around 17mpg after the first trial run i had a 7 mpg gain. so for those who say this stuff is BS i say check my tank.

ORIGINAL: craig4465

Â*I have made a few changes in the design in the cell and have got some promising results.
I was getting around 17mpg after the first trial run i had a 7 mpg gain. so for those who say this stuff is BS i say check my tank.


What are you running for engine?

Thats pretty good gains.

I'm ready to get started on my HHO. Where do I get everything? And is my altenator big enough to run mor amps than the 3.9L V6. I have a 4.7L 2wd QC. I've been lucky to get 14 mpg. I would love to see 20+ mpg.
I would like to also try it on my VW Jetta. I currently get 30 mpg. I t would be awsome to se 40+ mpg. (Hybrid eat that!)

please write a how-to very soon i want to try this, but cannot find any diys or how tos on it

You can go here (http://powellps91.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/)to get all the info, purchase pre-made systems w/full directions and learn how to do it yourself if you want. You have to pay for the info and access to all the other sites, but I only have $150 invested and my HHO system sittin in front of me (haven't installed it yet as my business has been running me ragged).

Here is a few things you can do to get a little extra help at the gas pump.
-go to a taller, more narrow tire.
-pump your tires to with in 2 psi of the max of what the tire recommends
-get rid of the clutch fan, get electric fans.
-2 to 3 ounces of acetone per every 10 gallons of gas. (I got an extra 3 mpg)
-get engine oil cooler. (helps a little with temps)
-get a high flow cat.
-You can lean your fuel some if you have an engine mngmt system. (not recommended if you have a heavy foot) Should get a wideband to monitor it.
-High flow air filter (K&N, or there of) Leans fuel a little by itself.

test

Hello HHO enthusiasts...I've been reading some very good posts on the toping of "Hydrogen Gas Fuel Injection" for your cars...I've been researching this concept for a month now and I can't tell you how many skeptics and doubters there are of this system...on the opposite end, I've seen crazy claims of 100% hyrdogen fuel. What people don't realize who doubt this "technology" is that it's not a storage of Hyrdogen gas (you'll always see references to the Hindenburg or some HYRDOGEN FUEL SYSTEM). This is not storage of H...IT IS ONLY AN ON DEMAND FUEL SYSTEM. Meaning, the H gas is only produced when needed by the air intake...

FOR A DETAILED STEP BY STEP HOW TO GUIDE ON THIS GO TO THE BEST RESOURCE I'VE SEEN THUS FAR WITHOUT YOU PAYING A SINGLE PENNY FOR THIS INFORMATION...PEOPLE THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN AROUND FOR over 150 years! If you don't believe this technology works then buy a DIESEL CAR AND CONVERT IT TO WVO (WASTE VEGETABLE OIL or VEGGIE CAR). THIS WORKS! HHO or HOH fuel injections systems work! URL: http://www.mindstrain.com/ (DOWNLOAD THE PDF's and WATCH A STEP BY STEP VIDEO ON HOW TO CONVERT YOUR CAR!)

Think of this simple concept....IF YOU MODIFY YOUR AIR INTAKE WITH A K&N FILTER over your OEM air filter...does your car not get better power and gas savings? I'm not that savvy with cars but I do know that when I replaced my OEM air filters in my civic which already gets 35mpgs and my Dodge Caravan ...maybe 25-27mpg? I noticed power increases AND better MPG improvement....I don't have EXACT data but you get a feel for your car after so many years...

PEOPLE, stop THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA from being the SAUDI and IRANIAN PRISON B****!

Do your research! Then make a decision if this works or not....FYI.,..LAST FRIDAY THE JAPANESE CREATED A 100% H2O powered car...NO not a Hydrogen Fuel Cell like Honda and GM...THIS WORKS SOLELY ON WATER which converts to Hydrogen Gas! Check the link:

DO YOU THINK IT'S A COINCIDENCE THAT THE SAUDI'S ANNOUNCED THAT THEY"RE GOING TO PRODUCE 200,000 MORE BARRELS PER DAY KNOWING THAT THIS CAR HAS BEEN RELEASED IN JAPAN!>? IF YOU READ THE PRESS STATEMENT CAREFULLY FROM THE MINISTER OF OIL, HE STATES THAT HE EVEN ADMITS THAT THE CURRENT PRICES ARE TOO HIGH AND IN FEAR OF PEOPLE GETTING CRAZY IDEAS FOR USING ALTERNATIVE FUELS, THEY'D RATHER INCREASE OIL SUPPLY THAN FACE THE TUNE OF PEOPLE NOT NEEDING THEIR OIL! I guess they have to tell their family to stop super sizing their meals at burger king now!
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/index.php?cl=8304856

ALSO TO NOTE: IF YOU THINK THIS IS A BUNCH OF MUCUS POOP, THEN WHY ARE GOVERNMENTS CONVERTING THEIR CARS TO HYDROGEN ON DEMAND SYSTEMS!

i.e., SOUTH KOREA, BRITISH COLUMBIA, ON
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/blog2/index.php/hydrogen-gas-savers/hydrogen-fuel-injection-helps-school-buses-increase-mileage/

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-28-2008/0004821933&EDATE=

FYI, companies like UPS and FEDEX have converted their GAS SUCKERS into HYDROGEN ON DEMAND!

AND YES I WILL BE CONVERTING A 1991 HONDA CIVIC HATCHBACK to HYDROGEN ON DEMAND...HOPEFULLY IN SEPTEMBER WHEN I"M NOT SO BUSY!

A SIMPLE EXPLANATION OF HOW THIS WORKS...

When H2O (water) is charged through electrolysis, it produces (seperates) H & O simultaneously.

H2O is introduced with electrical charge (Direct Current) DC molecules become excited and divides into its primary elements of H & O.

The produced H & O are now in GASEOUS FORM!

THE DOUBTERS WILL SAY...."IT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO PRODUCE THE HHO THAN THE ENERGY IT RELEASES"

FACT HHO can produce with as litte as 1.5 volts and this is an "ON DEMAND SYSTEM' HHO ONLY PRODUCES WHAT THE VEHCILE NEEDS AND CALLS FOR!

THE FUEL CELL YOU ARE CREATING CREATES A VACUUM IN WHICH BY CONNECTING TO YOUR CLEAN AIR SIDE OF YOUR AIR INTAKE, IT IS COMBINED WITH GASOLINE AND THE AIR IN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER AND THEREBY BURNT!

Once Burnt, HHO or HOH converts back to H2O, It is now absorbed in the inner heat from the engine @ 350-400 degrees F and conveted into super heat!. The H Vapor is pushed out during the exhaust stroke and out the tail pipe, there it condenses back into water vapor and eventually collects back to water.

-> The results are => ODERLESS EXHAUST, CLeaner engine, lowered CO2 Emissions and Lowered No2 emmisions, almost 0!

I'm no tree hugger but I do care about the environment and my bottom line, I'm sick of the idiot leaders of our Great Country continually take a back seat to this issue of hydrogen and alternative fuel all to get bribed by lobbyists and the Saudies to shut their mouths otherwise they won't receive a private vacation paid for by our tax dollars and no more campaign contributions!

Am I mad...no! I AM BURNING WITH RAGE over the REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, corporate fat pigs getting in the way of technology and innovation...AND NO ETHONAL IS NOT THE ANSWER TO OUR OIL SHORTAGE...I'd like to meet the J*** A** who thought of this idea..."Let's make fuel from Corn...Will it cause increased food prices...Oh no...not at all!" SCHMUCK!

Oh in case you didn't know your car actually only uses 25-30% of the gasoline you put into it...the rest? Oh it's PURE WASTE which your catalytic converter conviniently rids for you....So then shouldn't our gas be 70-75% cheaper!? Anywho...I think I'm done rambling on this forum...this is my third cup of coffee.!

Oh one more fact...During Jimmy Carter's presidency, his fuel MPG mandate to ALL AUTOMAKERS FOR CARS PROCUED HAD TO MEET 28.5 MPG....WHAT happened!? How do we go from those OLD CRAPPY STEEL HEAVY AS A HEFFALUMP cars to get 28.5 mpg to a cars BARELY GETTING 20mpg's? I wanted to buy a new Dodge Caravan or the Dodge crossover SUV...but then I SAW THE MPG'S! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! I don't know who enjoys being on top more when the Saudi's and Iranian's see the US need for oil.....Interesting to see AL GORE PUSHING "GLOBAL WARMING" and pushing his own electric "carbon friendly" company...meanwhile he says nothing about fuel alternatives that are in existance now!

Did you know when the SLIME BALL Al Gore won that Nobel Peace Prize HIS "global fearing" message was selected over a TRUE HERO aling with the other 217 recipients...READ ABOUT IT before you hail Al Gore the saviour of Mankind! I guess human life and compassion is worthless to these elitist!
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/15/nobel-committee-bypassed-holocaust-savior-al-gore

Hey everybody, sorry I haven't installed my system and posted the findings yet. I have been real busy at the shop and haven't had time to tinker with it. I plan on installing in the next couple weeks and I will post my findings along with a list of what else I have done to my truck so we get an acurate comparison.

Ok finally got mine installed. I am still tinkering with the adjustments and this will be my first tank with it installed. I will let you all know how it goes. I know there is another device I have to install to get the optimum results, but I want to try this first to make sure it's gonna be worth it.

Keep your fingers (and toes if you can) crossed[8D]

ok installed my cell this week too and im running my first tank of gas, i would have any solid results until i run the second tank through and the overhead in my truck isnt picking up and difference w/ it but i really didnt expect it to its so far off

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest, as I've been researching HHO technology myself, hoping to build such a system for my 4.7 engined Ram.

One point that is brought up in several of the pages I've visited about this technology is that of the computer offsetting the gains due to it's monitoring of the exhaust through the oxygen sensor, the HHO system 'cleans up' the exhaust gases considerably, which makes the computer think that the gas / air mixture is way too lean. The result here is that the computer will rich up the fuel mixture and offset and usually leave you with worse mpg than before the booster. This might be why you have seen no difference on the mpg meter in your vehicle, shrpshtr325.

Seems there are some circuits out there that will sit between the oxygen sensor and the computer and adjust the readings going back to the computer to fix this problem though.

i have heard about these systems, but i have also heard that some gains will be had even without them and if i could prove that then i could invest in one of those systems

I was thinking about the ecu making the adjustments the other day. I figured moving the O2 sencerto the front ofthe cat, or remove the cat. (I'm in Florida, no emmissions control yet) I would just have to deal with the check engine light. Or find a way to send a false reading to the ecu. The resister to the ecu has my intrest. I would probably get a wideband or some sort of Air/Fuel moniter to verify that the fuel is leaning some.

From what I've read, the HHO system pretty much makes the CAT redundant so moving the O2 sensor probably won't help.

There are some schematics on the net for a tunable device that will connect between the ECU and the O2 sensor and translate the voltage, I also think you can buy a box that does such for about 50 bucks, I'll see if I can dig up the schematic and post a link.

Ok, I found it, take a look at this rather large PDF:

http://free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf

The entire PDF has a lot of very interesting information on the building of several different designs of HHO unit, plus on page 38 it goes into the O2 sensor problem in depth along with some purchasable circuits and schematics for building and installing your own.

Painless, I also have a 4.7 dodge. Let met know what you've come up with. I'll do the same for you.

nomolos1: Sounds good to me!

I'm working this weekend and so have been doing some more internet digging, one of the major 'buy it ready built' companies around are the MagDrive guys, they have another PDF on their website which describes how to build an O2 sensor fooler for about 20 bucks:

http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/O2-Simulator.pdf

Painless, Radio Shac has a resister that is a dail. You can mount this inside the cab. You would wire it inbetween the O2's output wire to the ECU. I beleave a voltage regulator may be needed so that the O2 doesn't keep increasing its out put to increase fuel to the engine.

Ok I got mine installed did the first test run and gained 6 mpg, then the computer started messing with me and I only got 3 mpg more driving in a headwind so I figure prob was really closer 5mpg more. I have reconfigured my system a little, made the supply fitting bigger to allow more HHO through, am switching to KOH for the solute, wrapped my O2 sensors (but will prob put the extneders on instead) and have ordered a map controller so I can "trick" the computer. If I can gain and keep 6-10 mpg more it'll be worth it to me. That means I will get 20-24 mpg city and 25-29 mpg hwy from a 4.7 quad-cab, not bad in my book. I have about $275 invested in this little adventure so far (including the stuff I ordered). I figure even with the lowest figures I will get a little over 120 more miles per tank which is a savings of $24 a tank (remember this is w/minimal results), so the unit will pay for itself in 2 months then I will be saving $100-$150 a month thereafter. The first year will save at least $1100 in fuel expenses with minimum results, not bad for $275 plus some time to learn how to work the system. There are guys on a forum I belong to that are getting like 40mpg in their F-150's and 1 guy that is getting 85mpg in a Honda. I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.

Rpowell,
Let us know what and were you find your device to trick the ECU. This is really good news to hear. By the way, Does anyone know the correct wire that feeds the ECU from the O2s. I want to put a volt/amp meter on it to check what it is putting out at certain rpms.

ORIGINAL: rpowell

wrapped my O2 sensors


how did you do this, what did you wrap them with???

Believe it or not, good ol aluminum foil. My truck uses O2 sensors that have 4 wires, which means they heat to determine their settings also. The foil keeps them warm and tricks the computer into running at a leaner state (less gas). This has to happen or else the computer will actually adjust the settings to get the vehicle to run at factory again. Most OBD2 systems must be tricked or controlled (which is my next tinker). At least this what/how is supposed to work. I'll let you guys know if I nail it or not.

So you just wrap the wires all the way to the plugs, or go as far as you can?

No just wrap the sensor/sensors themselves, this tells the ecu that your vehicle is running to rich and will lean it out, which is what you need with HHO or you won't get good results. You also put in a map controller (I'll be doing this next).
If you go to this site (http://powellps91.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/) (yes you have to pay for the access, but worth it if you really start tinkering with this HHO stuff) you can get access to an extremely large database. The database has the books with several tested designs, marketplace where you can buy pre-built systems, user forum where hundreds of people share info, etc. it really takes a large amount of guess work out of the equation.

this is on the outside of the sensor, right? you dont have to take the sensor out??

Yep just wrap the outside with foil 5 to 7 times, no need to remove them. I am still checking into some other add-ons. I just made my supply line larger for the system and will post the results next week.

is that the only mod you made besides the generator itself?? and you saw 6 mpg gains from the generator and wraping the O2 sensor??

First trial run, I wrapped the O2's, installed the HHO system and use Xylol (Xylene is an octane booster). I have learned that vehicles with an OBD II computer are a little tricky because it will adjust the computer and kill your gains, so there are a couple other modules I am going to play with and I have a SuperChips programmer that I am going to call the company on to find out which setting tells the computer to stay lean. Not sure how long this will take to get gains and keep them, but I will post my findings as they come up. Like I said before if you guys really want access to allot of data and products go to link I posted and sign up. There are a ton of people out there on the same hunting path and we share info daily.

Your results sound really promising rpowell.

I've heard that some people are moving away from the potassium hydroxide catalyst to simply putting distilled white vinegar in the unit as their electrolyte. I.e. *JUST* the vinegar, no distilled water. This apparently yields better HHO production than potassium hydroxide and distilled water.

Anyone else heard about this?

I installed one on my 2006 Sprinter 2500 cargo van and I got 15% saving on diesel - see my test results with pictures here (http://autofuelsaving.com/info/testing-commercial-sl50-oxy-hydrogen-generator-on-dodge-sprinter/)- I wonder whether I can get better saving by wrapping with Al foil the MAF (mass air flow) sensor.

Try and EFIE to lean out. I ordered mine here.

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/store/

You need a dual for a Dakota. Only need to modify the two pre-cat sensors.

Cheers,
Shawn

I know EFIE and am even affiliate of their product. But Mike of their website says EFIE does not work well with the oxygen sensor on Dodge Sprinter as Sprinter uses a wide bandwidth sensor. Sprinter also has a MAF (mass air flow) sensor that controls the air/fuel ratio. I wonder if there is a product out there that can specifically deal with Sprinter's ECU to lean the fuel.

there are plans for one floating around somewhere i think there is a link to them int he 2nd gen dakota HHO thread(not the DIY, the other one)

You could try puting a resistor accross the CTS and IAT sensors.
Needs to be done correctly and I've seen a few devices on EBay that do it for very inexpensive.

Here is a good write up.

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/doc/TuningForMileage.html
There is also so information on adjusting your MAP and MAF in here.

They also mention Wide Band 02 so probably worth the read.

You could also try an 02 extender.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/O2-Sensor-Riser-HHO-Brown-Gas-Hydroxy-Hydrogen_W0QQitemZ170236442425QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3 240QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or this.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/I-A-T-MAF-MAP-PULSE-CHIP-HYDROGEN-SAVE-GAS-MONEY-EFIE_W0QQitemZ270251724116QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3240Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp163 8Q2em124

I've not tried either but in the middle of putting all the pieces I need together for my Hydronator.

Good Luck!

Regards,
Shawn

First, I have worked for Ballard Power the world leader in fuel cell technology.Check out what a real fuel cell is at http://www.ballard.com/About_Ballard/Resources/How_Fuel_Cells_Work.htm (http://www.ballard.com/About_Ballard/Resources/How_Fuel_Cells_Work.htm)The Ballard and Honda and GM fuel cell uses reverse electrolysis. The device"HHO"is not a fuel cell. It is a twelve volt electrolysis (water splitter) it cracks the 2H2O(l) into 2H2(g) + O2(g). This technology is over a hundred years.Or you can call this device an electrochemical cell.

The introduction of Hydrogen into the air intake will blend the air and hydrogen. This blending under a light pressure (less then 0.1 Bar) creates water vapor that is introduced into the intake. This moist hydrogen enriched airwith fuel is introduced to the intake manifold.

When mixed with oxygen across a wide range of proportions, hydrogen explodes upon ignition. Hydrogen burns violently in air. It ignites automatically at a temperature of 560°C. Pure hydrogen-oxygen flames burn in the ultraviolet color range and are nearly invisible to the naked eye, as illustrated by the faintness of flame from the main Space Shuttle engines (as opposed to the easily visible flames from the secondary rocket booster).

Hydrogen burns at an incredible high temperature. The ignition temp of 560° C or 1040° Fthat is at zero pressure and room temperature. What do you think the long-term effects will be to the internal components of your engine? How is this any different then blending Nitro methane into your fuel? About a century ago there were engines made to run on H² but there were no materials to use at the time that would stand up (long term)to the immense temperature.

This seems more like a product designed to provide immediate gratification against high fuel cost, a band-aid of sorts. Successful for the short term, based on what I have learnt this is not a long term solution to fuel economy.

Some valid points for sure that I will keep in mind. You seem to know your stuff. As far as long term effects go, who knows, I don't. This is an experiment that I will be documenting and carefully working with. I will post my results including video.

I plan tocome up with some way to pull the water vapour before it enters the stream.(ideas??) Short term fuel savings and environmental impactis exactly what I am looking for. Plus I don't want to have to get rid of my truck or drive it any less because of gas prices. (If I don't kill it)From what I figure in about 5 years or maybe a bit more (2015)I should be able to purchase a real Hydrogen powered vehicle and truly have just water as my exhaustbyproduct.

I worked for many years directly for Ed Ballard, the son of the founder of Ballard Power, Geoff Ballard. :)- I thinkthey formed another company called General Hydrogen.

Cheers,
Shawn.

Ok guys/gals here's an update.

I was getting a good 25-30% increase and then the computer reared it ugly head. I am in the process of messing w/O2's and putting in a map adjuster in order to trick the computer into staying lean, I'll let you know what works. So far I have about $200 or so invested in the system, but I know it has the potential to work so I am not giving up easily (I want to drive truck;)).

I do know that KOH is a better higher producing solute than baking soda. It doesn't cake up the lines and last longer, it does however draw more amps (burnt fuses to prove it) so be careful. You also will need to wear a face mask (cheap one is fine) or cover your nose & mouth while putting it in the jar. You would have to inhale a ton of fumes to hurt you, but better safe than sorry.I am waiting on a continueous (how do you spell that?) duty solenoid for my power source, which should take care of the fuse issue.

I will keep you guys/gals posted.

I'm using a 30AMP fuse and KOH in my testing so far.

If you use KOH start with 1/4 tsp (teaspoon) per gallon of water. I pre mix a gallon of distilled water before hand. That should give you about a 15AMP draw.
1/2 tsp should put you up near 25AMP.

Be careful and start off with less!

ORIGINAL: smleblanc

I'm using a 30AMP fuse and KOH in my testing so far.

If you use KOH start with 1/4 tsp (teaspoon) per gallon of water. I pre mix a gallon of distilled water before hand. That should give you about a 15AMP draw.
1/2 tsp should put you up near 25AMP.

Be careful and start off with less!



It also depends on what type of and thickness of wire is used. I use SS bolts (these last longer and can take more current) and require about 4X the solute. KOH seems to work great for production, but like smleblanc said take it slow and be careful or you will fry something for sure.

Oh yeah I also noticed that there are a bunch of people on Ebay selling O2 extenders for $9-$20 each. Go to an auto parts store get the 18mm spark plug anti-foulers (costs $4.50 for 2) and there you go.;)

From my research, I'm not a big fan of the 02 extenders. I guess I have two reasons for this;

1. I cannot just flip a switch in my dash to go back to stock. (pulling my boat or trailer I might not want HHO on?)
2. You cannot control the exact voltage to the 02, hence the exact amount of fuel. Every HHO unit will be different and produce different amouts of gas so I think we need to control the fuel mixture a little more to get maximum results.

I guess I'll see what happens when I mount this bad boy into my truck. I will post my results and video once I burn through a tank or two of gas!

rpowell, good point on the wire. Yet another varialble to think about when generating HHO. I think I am using 12 gauge wire, not sure actually but it is pretty think with loop connectors to the battery and ground.

Has anyone got any more data? I will not be able to use mine on my Dakota, because the tranny is going out on it. Looks like I will be hooking up the VW. Hope it works well.

Been awhile since I posted. My shop has gotten real busy (scooter sales are a boomin) and we just got back from vacation. I have not installed any of the new devices, but should have everything installed by the end of next week and have some new data the following week. I will keep you guys posted. If I can retain the 30% increase I've have gotten before, then this is 100% worth the $. Should give me between 5-8 more miles per gallon, so 110-176 miles per tank (only use 22 gallons or less then fill up again), which is $28 a tank, $141 savings a month (5 tanks) with only $250 invested will make me feel warm & fuzy inside (keepin my fingers crossed).
Keep ya posted.

This is my first post to this thread so far as I can recall, but I've been reading and re-reading it, and I've done ALOT of reading on other sites about HHO as well. I have built a cell based on the one I saw on www.mindstrain.com. I am using KOH as my electrolyte. I am currently using a 4 plate (3.5" X 7.5" each) +-+- design in a 1.1 gallon rubbermaid container that is microwavable so it should take the heat. I just installed it in the truck last night after 2 or 3 weeks of bench testing to figure out what water mixture to use. It's drawing about 15 amps i think, or it was on the bench right before I put it in the truck. I have not installed the ampmeter in the truck yet, gotta get a gauge pod tomorrow when I get paid. I do not have a way to measure the temp, but after it runs for about 20 mins it is very warm to the touch on the outside of the continer, but not really hot. So far the truck seems to be running a little smoother, makes a little more power. I do not have a MAP or O2 device installed yet, I will try the foil wrap on the O2 on my next tank.

From what I have read I think I may need to add 5 more plates, making all but the end ones neutral to lower the voltage and consequently the heat. I really think that the trick is to get a 1.5 - 2 volt drop between each plate, and run about 10 amps maximum. This should produce plenty of gas, and run a low enough temp to never worry about steam/water vapor. Although I am using a bubbler to solve that anyway, as well as give me a flash arrestor and clean any koh from the gas going to my engine.

Oh, and I have my cell sitting in the bed of the truck, so engine heat is not a factor. I am using 2 check valves, one between the cell and bubbler and one right where the hho gas line goes into the inake line. I have it all wired with a relay, a master switch w/LED, and hopefully tomorrow the ampmeter. I will post mpg results as soon as I have anything substantial, along with any changes to my setup. And hopefully some pics too.

New info for you guys. I just spoke with one of my drywall framers. I noticed he had a mason jar behind the grill of his new truck. He is also on the forums. He owns a 2008 Ram Mega Cab 1500HD 4x4. Earl started fresh with 17 mpg hwy. He has installed a chip and the mason jar HHO. He gets a solid 25 mpg hwy. THAT IS OVER 40%!!!!!! With a mason jar. Guys this truck weighs about 7000 lbs. (The bed always has 500 lbs in it)