RE: PLUG change
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RE: PLUG change - 5/6/2008 6:22:50 PM
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Brummo
Posts: 44
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Those are the one's I just put in, the 5224. Hope they are O.K. to use.
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''04 QC 4.7 4x4 SPORT PLUS
LINE-X
K&N Drop in
Autolite platinums
''90 SAAB 900 Turbo 252,000 (sold to my brother)
''03 SAAB 9-3 Vector
''08 SAAB 9-5
''02 Harely 1200 Custom
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RE: PLUG change - 5/6/2008 8:43:39 PM
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steve05ram360
Posts: 11410
Joined: 1/22/2004
From: Elk Grove, CA
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one cheep trick for you guys for better mileage is to wrap your fuel rails with thermo tech insulating tape... it will keep you fuel rail from getting heat soaked which will give you a tad more power. yo wont feel it since the truck is so heavy but when I did it to mine I got about .75 mpg better...
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RE: PLUG change - 5/6/2008 11:43:34 PM
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varsis
Posts: 1255
Joined: 10/8/2006
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just buy ngk plugs, they are one of the best plugs ever, you don't want one to foul, they are the best, My friend threw these in his bike (Either a step hotter or cooler.) Never had a problem with fouling for a long time (two strokes like to do that to your plugs!)
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dakotaramwire.com
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RE: PLUG change - 5/7/2008 4:55:32 AM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Boulee
Have you ever worked in the autmotive parts industry??? For either OEM or a tier supplier?
well i have, I worked (past tense) at Bosch for 4 years as a validation technician. OEM supplier side not aftermarket, spark plugs are considered aftermarket there.
For parts like these the R&D and the validation in all done by the supplier NOT by Dodge/chrysler.
What they do is say to the various suppliers "we need a spark plug. that fits these dimensions. how cheep will you sell it to us"
whoever gives the cheepest pice gets the contract for X amount of years or for Y amount of units/vehicles.
Yes what comes in the truck works obviously, but its the bottom barrel of what will work not the best.
and no im not biased towards bosch, but if you go to the mopar performace site they list bosch plugs as an upgrade.
Actually, yes I have -- which is why I'm biased against Bosch and other non-stock parts. Bosch used to advertise that they cover 99% of the applications out there with just 14 or 15 part numbers. Great. Every plug, then, is necessarily a compromise.
Take, for instance, the Dodge 4.7L. The OE plug for that application is the Champion RC12MCC4. That's the ONLY application for that particular plug. That plug isn't specified for ANY application except for the 4.7L V-8 engine. Chrysler doesn't simply ask for a plug that fits a certain dimension. There are a LOT of Champion RC12-type plugs out there that would physically fit. There's obviously a lot more to spark plug design than simply fit and finish.
Okay, back to the 4.7L V-8. What Bosch plug fits it? 4230, or FR8LPX. Okay, fine. Go look that up on Rockauto.com. Look at the application list for this plug:
ACURA
(1992 - 2007)
BMW
(1988 - 1994)
CHRYSLER
(2007 - 2008)
DAEWOO
(1999 - 2002)
DODGE
(1994 - 2008)
FORD
(1989 - 1997)
HONDA
(1990 - 2007)
ISUZU
(1996 - 2000)
JEEP
(1997 - 2007)
MAZDA
(1988 - 2003)
MITSUBISHI
(2006 - 2007)
SATURN
(2004 - 2007)
Are you kidding me? That's not acceptable. I will not believe for a second that the same plug that Bosch specifies as correct in a 1992 Acura or a 1995 Honda or a friggin' Daewoo is going to be the optimum plug for a 4.7L V-8. Not happenin'.
The OEM specifies exacting specifications for their OE plugs. You are right -- they will likely get the lowest bidder. But still -- that plug is made to the EXACT specifications of the OEM (Dodge in our case). That's not the case with an aftermarket Bosch plug. The Mopar site might list it as an "upgrade", but c'mon -- that's marketing -- they're trying to sell you a spark plug! Look at the application lists (Rockauto.com makes this very convenient) and then YOU can make the decision about which plug is going to be optimal for the engine.
If Bosch is correct -- and the plug that works in a 1988 Mazda is the best plug for a 4.7L V-8 engine, why did Dodge go to the expense of defining certain performance characteristics for the 4.7L V-8 plug, go to the expense of an RFP and bid process from various plug manufacturers, go to the expense of buying a plug from Champion that only has ONE application (theirs)? Why didn't they just use the plug that Mazda used in 1988? (That's obviously a rhetorical question.)
< Message edited by JasonA -- 5/7/2008 5:05:59 AM >
_____________________________
1997 Dodge Dakota Sport Club Cab
5.2L V-8 / 44RE / Emerald Green Pearl
255/70R15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s
Flowmaster 40-series Dual Exhaust
Pioneer DEH-2900/Sirius Stratus Receiver
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RE: PLUG change - 5/7/2008 8:06:14 AM
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scandal669
Posts: 320
Joined: 1/16/2008
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i really wish there was a definitive "which is best" answer about plugs on this forum.
seems like one plug works for one person and not for the another. i have read alot here doing a search and the consensus seems to be:
* Bosch plugs are no good...you lose power and mileage, they cause misfires, and they foul.
* copper works better than platinums...i read that plats can cause fuel not to burn right causing carbon buildup and can ruin your cat, they also foul.
* Autolite 5224's (OE) are equal to 3923's in these trucks unless you have lots of mods...
* Champion RC12 series are equal to Autolite 5224's which are both OE plugs...no negative replies about either plug
* hotter plugs work better for power and mileage unless you have mods, but if your motor is mostly stock you can get pinging, which can be resolved with a cooler thermostat...
with what i have read, the majority of people on this forum seem to be happiest with plain copper core OE Champion RC12's or Autolite 5224's. so i think its a guessing game and you try different things until you narrow down what works best for you.
after thinking more on all of this, my last 2 tanks of gas gave me 14.5-15.5mpg and i was getting 16-17mpg before the plug change. i know this mileage decrease is caused by plugs because this is all i have done to the truck in the last 2 or more tanks of gas. i think i am going to go back and change out the 3923 plats and put 5224's in.
_____________________________
99 Dodge Dakota Sport 4x4 Extended cab
PB3 - Intense Blue, Pearl Coat
5.2L 318, 5 speed manual
31x10.5x15
LeBra soft tonneau (get one, it saves gas!)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/scandal669/010.jpg
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RE: PLUG change - 5/7/2008 9:27:47 AM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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If you're talking about a 4.7L, I'd use the Champion RC12MCC4. That's the OE plug, and the 4.7L V-8 engine is the ONLY engine to use that plug. Even the 3.7L engine uses a different plug. I know the Autolite 5224 is supposed to be the "same" plug as the Champion, but I've got the same issue with that as I have with the Bosch. There are just way too many "correct" applications for that plug for me to believe that it's optimal for ALL of them. Here are the applications for the Autolite 5224: http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_fitment.asp?pid=5224 Hint: the list is about 5 miles long, and includes such applications as a '95 Nissan pickup with the KA24E engine, an '08 Honda Pilot with the JA35 engine, an '89 Ford Probe, and even some Sea-doos and other marine outboards. I will simply never believe that this one plug is the optimum part number for every single one of those applications. It might be the best plug for some, and the not-so-best for others.
Now, if you're talking 5.2L, the OE plug is the Champion RC12LC4. Different enough from the RC12MCC4 to have a different Champion part number. But Autolite still recommends the 5224. Now, admittedly, the application list for the RC12LC4 is a bit longer than that of the RC12MCC4 plug (the 4.7L plug), but it's still within reason: http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_fitment.asp?pid=RC12LC4 Summary: it's only used in Dodge 3.9L, 5.2L, and 5.9L engines.
So again, I have the same rhetorical question as I had above. Champion has two different part numbers for a spark plug for a 4.7L vs. a 5.2L. Autolite has one. Why? Champion is the OE supplier, and there was obviously enough of a difference to warrant that slight difference, whatever it is. Autolite was not the OE supplier, may not necessarily know what that slight difference may be, and specifies the same plug for use in both applications. Will you notice a negative effect if you use a 5224 plug in a 5.2L or a 4.7L compared with the "correct" Champion plug? Probably not. But we at least have to acknowledge the fact that Dodge did go to the expense (and it IS an expense) to define the properties, to do the procurement process, and at least initially stock, TWO separate plugs for these two applications.
What's the small, and maybe immeasurable difference in these two plugs...that Dodge thought was important but Autolite does not? I doubt any of us know...I know I don't. And that's precisely why I typically trust the engineering and R&D that Dodge did...rather than a generic cross-reference given by an aftermarket spark plug manufacturer.
< Message edited by JasonA -- 5/7/2008 9:40:06 AM >
_____________________________
1997 Dodge Dakota Sport Club Cab
5.2L V-8 / 44RE / Emerald Green Pearl
255/70R15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s
Flowmaster 40-series Dual Exhaust
Pioneer DEH-2900/Sirius Stratus Receiver
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RE: PLUG change - 5/7/2008 10:17:04 AM
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scandal669
Posts: 320
Joined: 1/16/2008
Status: offline
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dodge chose the best plug available 10 years ago is all they did. technologies have changed. if they were so concerned with a spark plug, why didnt mopar make the perfect spark plug for that vehicle? spark plug manufacturers cant make a plug for every individual application. people try different things, and for some, they work, and for some they dont. im betting that if we went back in time to when these trucks were being developed there would be assloads of changes made and different parts being used...from what i read, the only difference between the champion RC12 series plugs is the length and they were changed in different years and vehicles on the same engines for emission purposes and good for emissions isnt always the best for performance. i have always believed that engineers go the safe route to save money on possible warrantee issues. they dont want people coming back in 30k miles and have to spend money on changing something even if the engine in question runs better over the short haul or doesnt last quite as long playing it safe. in other words, i think most companies do just enough to save their own asses and make something work "just good enough" until the warrantee runs out. the engineers did the best they could with what they had but times have changed and there are simple improvments that can be made with new parts that have come out since these trucks were made. people that have blinders on to new things never get anywhere. like i said, sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed.
autolite plugs are as good as champions. the measurements and specs of both of those plugs are exactly the same and just because 5224's are used in more applications than RC12's means nothing except for the fact that engine designers work around what is available parts wise. the different part #'s on champions are for different emission requirements for a particular engine and the differences are so slight that it doesnt matter or the engine manufacturer wouldnt recommend an autolite plug in the first place.
there are a lot of people on this forum and all over the country that use autolite plugs and love them. i am not willing to call them all liars because dodge engineers decided to use a champion plug 10 years ago
< Message edited by scandal669 -- 5/7/2008 10:27:11 AM >
_____________________________
99 Dodge Dakota Sport 4x4 Extended cab
PB3 - Intense Blue, Pearl Coat
5.2L 318, 5 speed manual
31x10.5x15
LeBra soft tonneau (get one, it saves gas!)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/scandal669/010.jpg
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RE: PLUG change - 5/7/2008 11:01:13 AM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
autolite plugs are as good as champions. the measurements and specs of both of those plugs are exactly the same and just because 5224's are used in more applications than RC12's means nothing except for the fact that engine designers work around what is available parts wise. the different part #'s on champions are for different emission requirements for a particular engine and the differences are so slight that it doesnt matter...
I would submit that if the specs were exactly the same, the exact same Champion plug would have been used. And again...if the differences are so slight that it doesn't matter, why didn't Dodge use the same Champion plug? The engineers at Dodge weren't working around what was availble parts-wise...quite the opposite in fact: they were CREATING new part numbers. As stated, the Champion plug for the 4.7L V-8 isn't used anywhere else, in anything. That's not cherry-picking parts off the shelf. That's specifying new performance parameters.
quote:
there are a lot of people on this forum and all over the country that use autolite plugs and love them. i am not willing to call them all liars because dodge engineers decided to use a champion plug 10 years ago
This really wasn't the point of my post AT ALL. I didn't say anyone was lying, or that their experience with any plug wasn't believable. I simply said, and I'll repeat exactly what I said, "we at least have to acknowledge the fact that Dodge did go to the expense (and it IS an expense) to define the properties, to do the procurement process, and at least initially stock, TWO separate plugs for these two applications." Why'd they do it? You stated above, "the different part #'s on champions are for different emission requirements for a particular engine." I would like to know what the source of that information is. If that's coming from a Dodge powertrain engineer, cool...I accept that.
This discussion has really gone beyond what I intended. My point was simply that the OEM specifies the performance and operating parameters of a spark plug to a much higher detail than the aftermarket. When you said that the different applications for the Autolite plugs means nothing...that's exactly what that means. It means that the Autolite plug is supposed to be applicable to all of those applications. I didn't say it was a bad plug. I didn't say anything was wrong with it. I didn't call anyone a liar. My point was simply that it cannot be the optimum plug for every one of those applications. Somebody's getting a compromise somewhere. That's it.
_____________________________
1997 Dodge Dakota Sport Club Cab
5.2L V-8 / 44RE / Emerald Green Pearl
255/70R15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s
Flowmaster 40-series Dual Exhaust
Pioneer DEH-2900/Sirius Stratus Receiver
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RE: PLUG change - 5/23/2008 3:41:49 AM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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That's a nice setup in your garage! And 15-18 while towing with a 4x4 isn't bad. What do you normally get in town, without towing, and without highway cruising? I'm getting about 15-16 in my 1997, 5.2L 2WD.
_____________________________
1997 Dodge Dakota Sport Club Cab
5.2L V-8 / 44RE / Emerald Green Pearl
255/70R15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s
Flowmaster 40-series Dual Exhaust
Pioneer DEH-2900/Sirius Stratus Receiver
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RE: PLUG change - 5/23/2008 5:33:00 AM
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Brummo
Posts: 44
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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If I putz around town I can get about 15. Not bad, but I don't drive it unles I have to. The last trip to MN for fishing I was getting about 13.5 on the way up and with a 40mph head wind about 9-10 on the way back. That was the longest 7 hours of my life.....
_____________________________
''04 QC 4.7 4x4 SPORT PLUS
LINE-X
K&N Drop in
Autolite platinums
''90 SAAB 900 Turbo 252,000 (sold to my brother)
''03 SAAB 9-3 Vector
''08 SAAB 9-5
''02 Harely 1200 Custom
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RE: PLUG change - 5/23/2008 7:38:45 PM
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04crewcabsport
Posts: 13
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline
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I agree with JasonA. I went with the Champion plugs. I got them through partsamerica. I paid about $1.50/ea.
I changed them @ ~ 37k miles. My '04 runs like a Swiss watch now.
_____________________________
Black 2004 Crew Cab
SLT Sport Plus
4.7, 4x4
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RE: PLUG change - 5/24/2008 1:03:05 PM
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superdak05
Posts: 2651
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: ct.
Status: offline
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ok, heres the deal. i had the stock champion plugs in my 05 4.7 dak and they made the truck idle funny, come to find out that all the plugs were improperly gapped. at 30000 miles i went with the autolite 5224 plats. truck ran fine but i lost about 40-50 miles to a tank of gas. asked around and found that the 4.7 did not like plats. went with the autolite 3923 plugs and truck really likes them, one heat range cooler than stock, mileage went up better then the factory plugs, 18-19 around town 22/23 on the highway. also no pinging with terrible gas. now that i have installed a nitrous kit, went with the 3922 plugs and still have the same performance and no plug wear using the nitrous.
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thats right, i did it so what, cry two tears in a bucket, @#$% it, lets take it to the stage
13.7 / 101.3 in the 1/4 mile
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RE: PLUG change - 5/24/2008 3:40:19 PM
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User2006
Posts: 1456
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: Justin; Texas
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jr. Mechanic
quote:
ORIGINAL: jisco
Hello!
I've only been a dodge owner for about 4 1/2 weeks and am in the learning stages.
I have the 4.7 in an 01 quad cab with approx. 67400 Miles.
Yesterday I replaced the front shocks, "BIG" difference.
Anyway if you don't mind, what plugs and PCV valve did you use?
Thanks for your time,
jisco
S.E. Ohio
Best plugs to use are the autolite 3923's.
actually on the 4.7s they are a better built engine then the Older 5.2 5.9 and 3.9 engines..
the 4.7s can Actually get a better gain using planium plugs gapped correctly... the 5.9s 5.2s and 3.9s need to use the 3923s or champion stock plugs. (copper plugs)
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Printable Version
My last run last weekend was eh, O.K. We had a 20mph head wind for 2 hours with an average of 15. On the way back with the wind behind, I was getting about 18mpg. I do have a topper on the truck as well, but haven't notice much change from with just the cover. I only have the topper for my fishing trip and camping type stuff. 
