RE: Running truck with added water power
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/18/2008 11:36:08 AM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
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quote:
Bottom line is people believe what they want to, period.
There is no doubt about this.
quote:
I apologize for starting this rant, probably should have left it alone.
I wouldn't, and I'm glad you didn't. Just because people disagree, I don't think it makes the discussion not worth having. That said, if you don't want to talk about specifics, that's fine; you said you don't want to reply again to this topic, and you don't have to. But I will tell you some specifics, from my perspective. I can tell you that alternative fuels are not yet approved for military use. The military does not yet have a hybrid ANYTHING approved for combat. They are testing some fuel cell vehicles at Fort Belvoir, but again, nothing has come of this yet. Diesel/electric hybrid systems are on the horizon for testing, but again, nothing even on the ground yet, much less in theater. Rotary wing and fixed wing aircraft are still running on petrol JP-8. We haven't moved past the stone age in this regard. Weapons systems -- yeah, there's super secret technology abounding. But we're talking about propulsion systems for land-based vehicles. The military is still very much behind private industry in this regard. Fuel costs are among the biggest challenges, financially; it's a huge burden. If something like these water-in-a-jar kits work, and can be validated for military use, they'll be all over it like white on rice.
quote:
Back on topic again. I don't have any super scientific method I am going to use for the HHO thing. I am going to run the vehicle about the same using the a/c about the same and record mileage before and after. If this stuff really works the diff should be large enough to speak for itself.
Now that should be the case. Double the mileage will be readily apparent.
< Message edited by JasonA -- 4/18/2008 11:53:06 AM >
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/18/2008 12:06:13 PM
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scandal669
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im betting that there ARE alternative fuels that we just dont know about. i believe the government and oil companies hide alot from people and they have stuff we dont know about and dont want other nations knowing about it either. i seriously doubt that big oil companies or the government is going to let info out to the public until things get completely out of hand. i dont know this for a fact but i think if people take a step back and read between the lines... too many people are making too big of profits to give a crap about the common people. until people say enough is enough, then we will see miracles coming out of the woodwork. an engine to move a vehicle is not that amazing or technical. if man can go to outer space and to mars i really think man can make an alternative fuel. there are synthetic or man made products for just about everything today. technology is further advanced than we can even imagine.
< Message edited by scandal669 -- 4/18/2008 12:18:44 PM >
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/18/2008 12:11:00 PM
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rpowell
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JasonA I appreciate your "agree to disagree" stand point. Just don't feel like this thread is the right place to keep this going. However I will say this last thing and then we can start a new thread or PM our thoughts to each other.
The info that is made public, the info you have even if you have a gov "Top-secret" clearance is totally diff from a military "Top-secret". I don't have any hard facts and like I said my father-in-law hasn't broken any rules regarding is knowledge, I have just been around him long enough to put 2 & 2 together on some things. Yes there are plenty of things the military is also not privy to. I guess I didn't put my points out there well enough. It is a combination of several organizations and companies that hold back technology and yes it is done on purpose. Why don't we say screw importing oil, use all the money we are wasting making other people and countries rich and start refining our own, then get everybody in America in a Hybrid? Because auto makers would be forced to lose money, the oil industry would lose money, crooked political entities would lose money, a bunch of off-shore accounts would stop getting $ put into them, etc. It is not a great Gov conspiracy, it's a bunch of greedy people that don't want to let go of their profit. The same reason we buy a bunch of stuff from China and send factories to other countries to build stuff that gets shipped right back here, the ever powerful $. Environmentalists will tell you it's bad for us to pump and refine our own oils because it hurts the top-soil and the earth needs these resources left in it, but any good farmer will tell you not replant in one patch of soil too many times because the soil needs time to recup and as long as you move around the same soil will produce 100's of years worth of crop. I honestly believe that if all these people, companies and organizations really cared about America instead of chasing the dollar at all costs, we would be in much better shape as a country.
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/18/2008 12:15:08 PM
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scandal669
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rpowell
JasonA I appreciate your "agree to disagree" stand point. Just don't feel like this thread is the right place to keep this going. However I will say this last thing and then we can start a new thread or PM our thoughts to each other.
The info that is made public, the info you have even if you have a gov "Top-secret" clearance is totally diff from a military "Top-secret". I don't have any hard facts and like I said my father-in-law hasn't broken any rules regarding is knowledge, I have just been around him long enough to put 2 & 2 together on some things. Yes there are plenty of things the military is also not privy to. I guess I didn't put my points out there well enough. It is a combination of several organizations and companies that hold back technology and yes it is done on purpose. Why don't we say screw importing oil, use all the money we are wasting making other people and countries rich and start refining our own, then get everybody in America in a Hybrid? Because auto makers would be forced to lose money, the oil industry would lose money, crooked political entities would lose money, a bunch of off-shore accounts would stop getting $ put into them, etc. It is not a great Gov conspiracy, it's a bunch of greedy people that don't want to let go of their profit. The same reason we buy a bunch of stuff from China and send factories to other countries to build stuff that gets shipped right back here, the ever powerful $. Environmentalists will tell you it's bad for us to pump and refine our own oils because it hurts the top-soil and the earth needs these resources left in it, but any good farmer will tell you not replant in one patch of soil too many times because the soil needs time to recup and as long as you move around the same soil will produce 100's of years worth of crop. I honestly believe that if all these people, companies and organizations really cared about America instead of chasing the dollar at all costs, we would be in much better shape as a country.
i agree, the bottom line is corruption and greed
i said basicly the same thing in my post above yours
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99 Dodge Dakota Sport 4x4 Extended cab
PB3 - Intense Blue, Pearl Coat
5.2L 318
5 speed manual
31x10.5x15
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/scandal669/010.jpg
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/18/2008 12:30:43 PM
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JasonA
Posts: 348
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Thanks guys. Hope the kit works out for the best.
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1997 Dodge Dakota Sport Club Cab
5.2L V-8 / 44RE / Emerald Green Pearl
255/70R15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s
Flowmaster 40-series Dual Exhaust
Pioneer DEH-2900/Sirius Stratus Receiver
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/19/2008 7:56:39 AM
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02dakotakid
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i agree with jason. this just sounds like a bad idea. i dont see how you would keep your engine lubricated since oil and water dont mix. but if you want to try it by all means go ahead...just dont cry about it when your engine quits running.
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/19/2008 8:38:59 AM
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scandal669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 02dakotakid
i agree with jason. this just sounds like a bad idea. i dont see how you would keep your engine lubricated since oil and water dont mix. but if you want to try it by all means go ahead...just dont cry about it when your engine quits running.
obviously a person cant just fill up with water as the engine is right now, it would take a whole new setup and conversion and probably a whole new engine with different internal parts to handle a different fuel, but the concept could be the same as they are now just with different parts. tech school students, engineers, and scientists have been working on this for 20+ years, nobody can tell me that at least one prototype wouldnt work...
_____________________________
99 Dodge Dakota Sport 4x4 Extended cab
PB3 - Intense Blue, Pearl Coat
5.2L 318
5 speed manual
31x10.5x15
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/scandal669/010.jpg
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/24/2008 9:15:15 AM
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Brummo
Posts: 44
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A guy at work out of the blue was talking about his home made kit they built for his chey truck.
He went from 16 mpg to around 37. There are lots of little things to do to trick the comp, map sensor and air mass meter. Could be time consuming, but with help from him, I may give it a try. He has done about 3 cars last week.
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/24/2008 9:46:00 AM
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tntitans21399
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I would be interested in what he did to get 30+ mpg
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/24/2008 10:11:11 AM
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Brummo
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He went to a website and got lots of info and tricks on how to build a system. have to trick the AFM and the Map sensor voltages. O2 sensors need to be extended out of the exhaust with plug anti-foulers, potentiometers, and some electrical with a jar of water. Now there are some things I am concerned about. The fact you push more O2 into the system for a better combustion and you end up running lean. I suppose some MMO in the gas would help lube too.
Going to find out more from this guy, but he was pretty positive on his outcome. I asked a bout HP and didn't really notice a drop at all, in fact a little better because of a better burn.
Just thought I'd update a little.
_____________________________
''04 QC 4.7 4x4 SPORT PLUS
LINE-X
K&N Drop in
Autolite platinums
''90 SAAB 900 Turbo 252,000 (sold to my brother)
''03 SAAB 9-3 Vector
''08 SAAB 9-5
''02 Harely 1200 Custom
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/24/2008 11:03:28 AM
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rpowell
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Yeah that is the kind of stuff I have been hearing and reading. Here is a link to the site I have talked about http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=powellps91
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/24/2008 11:20:07 AM
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Brummo
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here's another site this guy used to get some ideas.
www.protiumfuelsystems.com
_____________________________
''04 QC 4.7 4x4 SPORT PLUS
LINE-X
K&N Drop in
Autolite platinums
''90 SAAB 900 Turbo 252,000 (sold to my brother)
''03 SAAB 9-3 Vector
''08 SAAB 9-5
''02 Harely 1200 Custom
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RE: Running truck with added water power - 4/25/2008 8:55:23 AM
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rpowell
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Kinda the same except they use more of a Nydrogen system than HHO and they also have this big (unfactual) warning about HHO that use baking soda. I looked into these guys and then emailed a question to a couple of the HHO tech support guys, here is 1 of their responses;
Ron,
I have to laugh when I see this! It is so patently false that it is ridiculous and moronic. I would like to know what chemist gave this person his data. I'm sure this didn't come from a chemist, it came from a very whithered grape vine.
I don't intend for this to be the last word on this, because I am willing to be wrong if someone gives me the data, but from what I know under NO circumstances does baking soda produce carbon monoxide. EVER.
It does react in several ways under different circumstances, but it breaks down to produce carbon dioxide, water, and sodium carbonate (which itself is relatively inert). I have found no indication in any document or study EVER, in which CO is a byproduct of a reaction including sodium bicarbonate.
Baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate, dissolves in water to form salt and carbonic acid, which then decomposes over time to carbon dioxide and water.
If someone can show me a formula from a study or paper which has CO as a byproduct, and it is not a reaction which occurs under special circumstances (like with sulfuric acid), then I'll change my position.
Remember, baking soda is used in baking. It is precisely that it produces CO2 that it is used in many, many applications.
As you know, even if it did produce carbon monoxide, it is not factual that "it only takes a small leak or accidental exposure to the DEADLY GASES that are generated by the use of "Baking Soda" to kill you and your loved ones."
You can breathe a little carbon monoxide and it won't kill you. You would have to enclose yourself in the garage with the car running for quite some time for that to occur, and that death would be a result of the carbon monoxide the car produces. And again, even if baking soda ever produced carbon monoxide, you'd have to enclose yourself in the garage for probably a year before the amount that comes out of the jar would effect you while the car is not running. But baking soda does not produce carbon monoxide.
So,
No, baking soda is not deadly. I have not found any chemical equation that has baking soda generating any carbon monoxide whatsoever. Please do contact a chemist as he says, and let me know what he says. I'm not a chemist, but I did major in chemistry at the U of Wisconsin before getting my BS in journalism and then a BS in electrical engineering.
Oh, by the way, many high school chemistry teachers use baking soda in student experiments to illustrate electrolysis. I'm sure they wouldn't do this if it exposed the kids to poisonous gases.
We are constantly looking for improvements and I am studying the use of baking soda. But at this point, I haven't found any negative effects which have been documented which say otherwise. If we do determine anything needs to change for safety or other reasons, we'll update it on the website and in the books.
Happy Mileage!
JJ Ferretti
Water4Gas
Tech Support
Just looks like these companies that sell the expensive systems don't want the average Joe to be able to save money, they want your money and will try to scare you into not buying a cheaper product. As a matter of fact, Hydrogen generators are pretty dangerous themselves.
I will however be ordering their "Oxyisolator" and unless my I can't find a Superchip setting that will take care of the MAP issue I will also be getting their "Gas Optimizer". I will be trying to get the system set-up next week and will keep everybody up to speed.
Ron
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