Help, trying to install amp and subs

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Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/4/2008 4:48:02 PM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline I have a problem and I think it somehow a problem with the car (08 Avenger SXT).   I am trying to hook up an amplifier and a pair of subs in the trunk. Here is what I have done so far.   I ran a 6ga wire directly from the battery posts back to the trunk and to the amp.   I ran a 16ga remote power wire from an ACC wire under the dash back to the trunk and to the amp for remote turn on.   I ran a 6ga wire from a chassis bolt in the trunk to the amp.   This takes care of all power. I spliced into the rear deck speaker wires and installed a Line Out Converted, also grounded to the chassis bolt in the trunk.   Ran RCA wires from the LOC to the amp.   Wired the subs to the amp. This all sounds good at low volume.  Here is the problem, when I turn the volume up the amp cuts out and quits playing.  Power light is still on, but quits playing. I thought the problem was the amp.   So, I got another amp.   The same thing is happening, with two different amps.   They play at low volume but cut out when I turn it up. Is there a power draw issue with my car?   The amps are not that big.   The first amp is only 250W RMS,  and the second amp I tried was only 50W RMS,  so they are not big power sucking amps.   They both worked fine in my previous car driving the same set of subs. Please help. Post #: 1

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/4/2008 4:52:40 PM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline also forgot to mention, I thought maybe there was a problem with the LOC, so the second amp that I tried had its own high level speaker inputs. So, I eliminated the LOC in the second setup. Same results. (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 2

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/5/2008 9:37:36 AM    needforsleep   Posts: 75 Joined: 5/13/2007 Status: offline Are you tapping into the wires after the stock amp or before?  I would try tap into the signals coming directly out of the radio. _____________________________ 2008.5 Dodge Avenger SXT - 2.4L Steel Grey - All Options Including REN MyGig + Rear Seat Video (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 3

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/5/2008 8:00:57 PM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline Is there a stock amp on this system, separate from the stereo?   Where is it located?   I'm tapping the speaker wires right at the rear speakers in the rear deck, so it would be after the stock amp, if there is one.   I have the 6 disc changer, but I do not have the upgraded sound system, is there still a stock amp somewhere?   Where is it? Thanks for the reply. (in reply to needforsleep) Post #: 4

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/5/2008 9:43:16 PM    needforsleep   Posts: 75 Joined: 5/13/2007 Status: offline I don't know if the stock system has an amp but I think the 6-disc system is a mid-range system with the base system having only single CD capability. Maybe check under the front passenger or driver seat? _____________________________ 2008.5 Dodge Avenger SXT - 2.4L Steel Grey - All Options Including REN MyGig + Rear Seat Video (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 5

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/6/2008 11:45:03 PM    futil   Posts: 330 Joined: 9/11/2007 Status: offline Try adjusting the line level inputs, I have a feeling you are putting too much power to the amp RCA inputs and that is causing the amp to shut down to protect itself. You definitely have enough power for that amp as far as the battery and alternator are concerned.. Im running a 600W amp without any issues. Also check your positive and negative speaker leads if you reverse them some amps cut out.. Same goes for the positive and negative coming into the line level converter.. Check them as well.. If you turn it on and it works at low volume chances are you wired the positive, negative and remote sense wires correctly.. but there is also a chance that there is a bad power or ground connection but that is unlikely. Lastly, A blown speaker/speaker lead short will also cause an amp shutdown at higher volumes. I have the Boston Acoustics package which includes an amplifier and I am tapping into the amplified rear speakers using a line level converter.. So it shouldn't matter if you have amplified speakers or not as long as you adjust the line levels on the converter. < Message edited by futil -- 1/6/2008 11:52:43 PM > (in reply to needforsleep) Post #: 6

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/7/2008 8:23:57 AM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline Yep, I have tried adjusting the gains on the line into the LOC.    I have tried everything.   I've been installing/toying with aftermarket amps and subs and stuff for 15 years,  so I'm not too much of a novice.   This really has me stumped. I really want to get this working....  I need a little more bass!! (in reply to futil) Post #: 7

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/7/2008 8:44:12 AM    futil   Posts: 330 Joined: 9/11/2007 Status: offline Are you sure you tapped into the correct speaker leads and that they are the correct polarity? I went for the ones close to the rear speakers in the back of the car for 3 reasons 1) It makes the install easier and slightly neater, 2) you cant screw up and pick the wrong speaker leads cause theyre definately going to the speakers :) The only variable would be positive and negative and the positive wires are marked on the speaker with red dots, and 3) since the wires will be shorter theres less chance of picking up distortion from other wires.. I mean it has to be one of the things I mentioned in this post or the previous one cause there isn't much else that can be done wrong lol If you have a multimeter, set it to measure resistance and check the resistance of the speakers to check for shorts in your speaker.. should be 2 Ohms or greater depending on which speakers you purchased. Anything less should shut down an amp of your wattage since they usually arent designed to handle less than 4 Ohms at that wattage. (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 8

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/7/2008 9:14:06 AM    bad venge   Posts: 2002 Joined: 3/24/2007 Status: offline How are the subs wired ??? Series??? Parralel??? What Impedance ??? Amp wired stereo or mono ??? _____________________________ http://www.fokispg.com/Jeff%20Wey/picsframes1.htm (in reply to futil) Post #: 9

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/8/2008 5:48:46 AM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline I tapped right into the speaker wires about 12inches away from each rear deck speaker.   I'm pretty sure those are speaker wires ;)    The polarity is correct, I wasn't sure at first, so I tried the battery pop test that I found documented on Crutchfield.com   when the + on a "C" battery touches the + on the speaker, the cone pushes away from the magnet. The amp is 1 channel mono.   I have two 4ohm subs.  The +'s on both speakers go to the + terminal on the amp.   The -'s on both speakers go to the - terminal on the amp.    This should present a 2ohm load to the amp.    Correct? (in reply to bad venge) Post #: 10

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/8/2008 7:01:57 AM    futil   Posts: 330 Joined: 9/11/2007 Status: offline Would you be able to provide the make and model of the Amp? Even though its a mono amp it may not be able to go down to 2 ohms stable. You are correct in your wiring and resistance calculations but if the amp is not 2 ohm stable you should have purchased either a single 4 ohm subwoofer, a single dual voice coil 8 ohm subwoofer wired in Parallel, Two 8 ohm speakers wired in Parallel, or Two 2 ohm subs wired in series.. all of which which would provide 4 ohms. Just for shits and giggles.. Try just 1 speaker and see if its stable with louder volumes.. if it is stable then your amp isn't 2 ohm stable. (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 11

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/8/2008 9:09:53 AM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline Thanks for the help.  I'll try the 1 speaker,  but I know my amp is 2ohm, at least is says it is.   It is an  Alpine MRP-M350. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-r2zT2s5famx/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=500MRPM350 (in reply to futil) Post #: 12

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/8/2008 9:21:56 AM    mpdej8   Posts: 11 Joined: 12/9/2007 Status: offline Futil - see my previous post for amp model, just didn't want you to miss that one.   I have another question for you. I don't really think this matters, but I'm looking for anything at this point.   Where did you connect your main power wire?    I assume you have a 2008 Avenger?   The battery itself is pretty much unreachable.   I connected my main 6ga power wire to the post up on top where it says to connect jumper cables.   Is this an adequate location for battery power?   It should be, if it can be used to jump start the car. (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 13

RE: Help, trying to install amp and subs - 1/8/2008 12:11:35 PM    futil   Posts: 330 Joined: 9/11/2007 Status: offline Thanks for posting your amp info, that helps seeing the amp.. As you said, Your amp is rated for 2 ohms.. I had an older Alpine amp that was rated for 2 ohms but it actually couldn't handle it and would shut down so I bought a different amp.. The Alpine amp i had was a different amp than yours so im not saying that is definitely the case with your amp but its something to look out for when dealing with Alpine amps. Also sometimes the subwoofers actual resistance can be lower than its listed resistance.. I had a pair of subs about 5 years ago that were rated at 4 ohms but the resistance measured on my multimeter was actually much less than advertised so when I wired them up expecting 2 ohms I ended up with more like .9 ohm which was enough to push my amp over the edge. They were good subs but whoever made them wrapped the coil incorrectly. This can also happen if you put too much power through a sub and it shorts the voice coil in just the right place.. So instead of the power traveling through the full length of the coil it jumps at the short and bypasses a length of coil it was supposed to be traveling through effectively lowering the speaker's resistance. I just wanted to put that out there just so people are aware that just because speakers are rated at a certain resistance, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will always be accurate. Which isn't as critical when dealing with higher resistance subs such as 8 and 4 ohms but when you get down to 2 ohms and you drop 1 ohm that's a big deal as far as the amp is concerned. I do have an Avenger R/T..  I really wanted to go directly to the battery with my 4 Gauge positive cable cause its such a waste wiring it to the jumper terminal that has such a small gauge wire considering its powering the entire car and my 600 watt amp ( http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?g=120&i=575T6002P&tp=115 ) .. but I didn't feel like taking the fender well out so I went the lazy route and ran the cable to the jumper terminal as you did. I left just enough slack in the cable to reroute it to the battery at a later time but I cant see me doing it unless it was really necessary.. Obviously its desirable to go directly to the battery but the car's positive wires aren't melting so its sufficient for powering an amplifier. I have a 5 Farad capacitor wired in ( http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=cap&i=120PP1005D ) and I can still tell that the amp is hungry for a little more power which would probably be remedied by running the power cable directly to the battery because im sure the available power to the amp is limited by the thin gauge cable.. But even so the amp works great as its currently wired. Since im not entering any sound off competitions im not that worried about it and the amp definitely does not shut down or struggle using the jumper post mount. Basically in a nutshell.. When the car's primary positive battery cable starts melting.. you need to start thinking about relocating your power cable directly to the battery.. but otherwise you should be good.. Thumbnail Image Attachment (1) < Message edited by futil -- 1/8/2008 12:16:44 PM > (in reply to mpdej8) Post #: 14

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